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Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

forbes.com

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Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#21

Post by marcell »

Thiz wrote: post #18
DougWebb wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bitcoin address is just a container for some amount of BTC. Holding an amount of currency isn't taxable, and exchanging currency often isn't taxable either. (I'm generalizing across jurisdictions, but I think what I'm saying is true for most of them.) If you move money from one pocket to another, or one savings account to another (that you own), that's not taxable. Very many transfers between bitcoin addresses is j…

Great explanation. Ignore my ignorance in crypto stuff, so, what's stopping us from creating a hundred accounts in one computer and having a couple of bitcoins in each one of them? Or even spread in one hundred shared peer-to-peer bank services?

Nothing stops you from create hundreds or even millions of bitcoin addresses, which can act as "accounts."

Edit: A bitcoin address is a 160-bit number. That number is associated with a public and private key. The only way you can spend bitcoins stored in an address is if you know the private key of that address.

For more information, this video gives a fairly in depth explanation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx9zgZCMqXE

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#22

Post by flyinglizard »

pnathan wrote: post #6

Unpopular opinion of the day: bitcoin is real money, and the government will regulate it and control it as such. In my opinion, the end-game is this: bitcoin addresses are taxable, with occasional tax agents spot-checking large accumulations of bitcoin to determine if said addresses fall within their jurisdiction. Bitcoin has the unusual ability to have a very tight trace on where a given virtual coin goes: that just…

This is why I don't believe in BTC for the long term. It's not anywhere near anonymous.

Those saying BTC has no inherent value (as opposed to gold, for example) are completely overlooking the fact that BTC is the only kind of exchange that can be used for illicit activities in a relatively untraceable manner (good luck buying stuff on SR using gold).

Unfortunately, BTC is traceable if governments decide to spend the resources monitoring transactions, and I suspect this would be the primary motivator in the demise of BTC and a replacement with a more anonymous currency - the other motivator being that there's a huge financial upside for being an inventor or early adopter of a successful cryptocurrency, as BTC shown us.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#23

Post by dylangs1030 »

antitrust wrote: post #14
rayiner wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why this should be unpopular, except among people who see the Internet as a new Wild West. The basic advantage of Bitcoin, that its controlled by an algorithm rather than a central bank, exists whether or not financial regulations apply to Bitcoin. Does it destroy the utility of a crypto currency for exchanges and processors to be required to detect e.g. money laundering?

> the Internet as a new Wild West I thought that idea died, was buried, exhumed, and reburied back in 1996.

Nope. A casual perusal of Hacker News and reddit will show this mentality is very much alive, and that people believe this is the only way the internet should be. Free, international waters where anything goes and there shouldn't be any government involvement.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#24

Post by tazzy531 »

flyinglizard wrote: post #22
pnathan wrote: post #6

Unpopular opinion of the day: bitcoin is real money, and the government will regulate it and control it as such. In my opinion, the end-game is this: bitcoin addresses are taxable, with occasional tax agents spot-checking large accumulations of bitcoin to determine if said addresses fall within their jurisdiction. Bitcoin has the unusual ability to have a very tight trace on where a given virtual coin goes: that just…

This is why I don't believe in BTC for the long term. It's not anywhere near anonymous. Those saying BTC has no inherent value (as opposed to gold, for example) are completely overlooking the fact that BTC is the only kind of exchange that can be used for illicit activities in a relatively untraceable manner (good luck buying stuff on SR using gold). Unfortunately, BTC is traceable if governments decide to spend the…

Isn't BTC's public ledger public? (https://blockchain.info/)

While it's possible to generate a new wallet to mask who the user is, the transaction flow can be traceable. This seems easier to trace than the flow of money through our banking system.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#25

Post by mtgx »

flyinglizard wrote: post #22
pnathan wrote: post #6

Unpopular opinion of the day: bitcoin is real money, and the government will regulate it and control it as such. In my opinion, the end-game is this: bitcoin addresses are taxable, with occasional tax agents spot-checking large accumulations of bitcoin to determine if said addresses fall within their jurisdiction. Bitcoin has the unusual ability to have a very tight trace on where a given virtual coin goes: that just…

This is why I don't believe in BTC for the long term. It's not anywhere near anonymous. Those saying BTC has no inherent value (as opposed to gold, for example) are completely overlooking the fact that BTC is the only kind of exchange that can be used for illicit activities in a relatively untraceable manner (good luck buying stuff on SR using gold). Unfortunately, BTC is traceable if governments decide to spend the…

There is this proposed extension for anonymity, but I don't think it's very likely it will be implemented:

http://zerocoin.org/

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#26

Post by TomaszZielinski »

DougWebb wrote: post #15
pnathan wrote: post #6

Unpopular opinion of the day: bitcoin is real money, and the government will regulate it and control it as such. In my opinion, the end-game is this: bitcoin addresses are taxable, with occasional tax agents spot-checking large accumulations of bitcoin to determine if said addresses fall within their jurisdiction. Bitcoin has the unusual ability to have a very tight trace on where a given virtual coin goes: that just…

A bitcoin address is just a container for some amount of BTC. Holding an amount of currency isn't taxable, and exchanging currency often isn't taxable either. (I'm generalizing across jurisdictions, but I think what I'm saying is true for most of them.) If you move money from one pocket to another, or one savings account to another (that you own), that's not taxable. Very many transfers between bitcoin addresses is j…

> exchanging currency often isn't taxable either

Exchanging currency often generates "exchange differences" which (often indirectly) increase/decrease the profit.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#28

Post by necubi »

flyinglizard wrote: post #22
pnathan wrote: post #6

Unpopular opinion of the day: bitcoin is real money, and the government will regulate it and control it as such. In my opinion, the end-game is this: bitcoin addresses are taxable, with occasional tax agents spot-checking large accumulations of bitcoin to determine if said addresses fall within their jurisdiction. Bitcoin has the unusual ability to have a very tight trace on where a given virtual coin goes: that just…

This is why I don't believe in BTC for the long term. It's not anywhere near anonymous. Those saying BTC has no inherent value (as opposed to gold, for example) are completely overlooking the fact that BTC is the only kind of exchange that can be used for illicit activities in a relatively untraceable manner (good luck buying stuff on SR using gold). Unfortunately, BTC is traceable if governments decide to spend the…

People claiming BTC has no inherent value aren't talking about the general concept or code—they're referring to this particular blockchain.

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#29

Post by LekkoscPiwa »

flyinglizard wrote: post #22
pnathan wrote: post #6

Unpopular opinion of the day: bitcoin is real money, and the government will regulate it and control it as such. In my opinion, the end-game is this: bitcoin addresses are taxable, with occasional tax agents spot-checking large accumulations of bitcoin to determine if said addresses fall within their jurisdiction. Bitcoin has the unusual ability to have a very tight trace on where a given virtual coin goes: that just…

This is why I don't believe in BTC for the long term. It's not anywhere near anonymous. Those saying BTC has no inherent value (as opposed to gold, for example) are completely overlooking the fact that BTC is the only kind of exchange that can be used for illicit activities in a relatively untraceable manner (good luck buying stuff on SR using gold). Unfortunately, BTC is traceable if governments decide to spend the…

However, BTC is just a great example that might find followers who will make it hmmmm... more anonymous.

Money has just two functions: (1) It has to maintain its value over time (2) People must accept it as means of setting payments

BTC seems to meet both.

It's not anonymous "enough", but I guess this could be fixed with another iteration. (another electronic currency).

It would be great for the world to have more currencies than the monopolistic currencies enforced by the modern states (fiat currencies). Just to own something that doesn't have its monetary base doubled in 4 years, would be awesome! (USD base rose two times from 2008 to 2012).

Re: Every important person in BitCoin just got subpoenaed by NY financial regulators

#30

Post by mtgx »

pnathan wrote: post #6

Unpopular opinion of the day: bitcoin is real money, and the government will regulate it and control it as such. In my opinion, the end-game is this: bitcoin addresses are taxable, with occasional tax agents spot-checking large accumulations of bitcoin to determine if said addresses fall within their jurisdiction. Bitcoin has the unusual ability to have a very tight trace on where a given virtual coin goes: that just…

I think in the short term at least, this is beneficial for Bitcoin, if it's recognized as money, and businesses and "normal" people start trusting to use it without fearing repercussions from the government, as long as they "follow the rules".

This could lead to more centralized exchanges, which again is good in the short term - the more the merrier, so people can easily get Bitcoin with their dollars.

But I think the end game for Bitcoin is to be a "real currency" that gets used everywhere and people get paid in it, to the point where a lot of people won't need to exchange to dollars necessarily.

At that point you could start living entirely with Bitcoins, and you won't need centralized services anymore either. You can just use your own local wallet, whether it's on your PC, smartphone, or NFC ring.

Tracking the transactions through services like Coinbase or Mtgox is obviously going to be trivial for the authorities, since they can just request the data tied to people's names.

But it's going to be a lot harder to see them when you're using local wallets, unless the IRS is still receiving help from the NSA at that point, because you'll probably need something like the mass surveillance system of NSA tracking every transaction from the whole Internet, and using Big Data to identify who's buying what. But hopefully by then we'll fix the NSA "problem".

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