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The YC Deadline Brings Out Stupid Decisions in Another Applicant Team

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Re: The YC Deadline Brings Out Stupid Decisions in Another Applicant Team

#21

Post by edw519 »

dfranke wrote: post #20
edw519 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I don't see why you think it's unethical for them to try to poach your partner." This is Arthur Anderson thinking, not Y Combinator thinking. If you jumped on one of my best people "in an instant", then you better be prepared to set aside resources to deal with me. Are you sure you really want to do that?

If Arthur Andersen thinking is defined as "don't take petty crap like this personally, and focus your brain cycles on MSPW", then I have to side with Arthur Andersen. But I suspect that this is a matter on which Paul Graham and David Duncan would be in agreement.

"It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business."

And it certainly isn't petty. I don't care how much technical talent you have, if you're not prepared to compete in business, whatever the threat, you're toast. Poaching my people is crossing the line.

And I don't care what Paul Graham, David Duncan, or anyone else thinks. On this issue, you shouldn't either. Ethics is non-negotiable.

Re: The YC Deadline Brings Out Stupid Decisions in Another Applicant Team

#25

Post by dfranke »

edw519 wrote: post #21
dfranke wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Arthur Andersen thinking is defined as "don't take petty crap like this personally, and focus your brain cycles on MSPW", then I have to side with Arthur Andersen. But I suspect that this is a matter on which Paul Graham and David Duncan would be in agreement.

"It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business." And it certainly isn't petty. I don't care how much technical talent you have, if you're not prepared to compete in business, whatever the threat, you're toast. Poaching my people is crossing the line. And I don't care what Paul Graham, David Duncan, or anyone else thinks. On this issue, you shouldn't either. Ethics is non-negotiable.

"If you're not prepared to compete in business, whatever the threat, you're toast."

"Poaching my people is crossing the line."

Those two statements look juxtaposed to me. It sounds to me like you're the one who isn't prepared to compete if you aren't willing to pose such a threat to your competitors, or to contend with it when you're on the receiving end.

Re: The YC Deadline Brings Out Stupid Decisions in Another Applicant Team

#27

Post by SwellJoe »

edw519 wrote: post #21
dfranke wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Arthur Andersen thinking is defined as "don't take petty crap like this personally, and focus your brain cycles on MSPW", then I have to side with Arthur Andersen. But I suspect that this is a matter on which Paul Graham and David Duncan would be in agreement.

"It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business." And it certainly isn't petty. I don't care how much technical talent you have, if you're not prepared to compete in business, whatever the threat, you're toast. Poaching my people is crossing the line. And I don't care what Paul Graham, David Duncan, or anyone else thinks. On this issue, you shouldn't either. Ethics is non-negotiable.

This isn't a question of ethics. This is a question of whether you and the company you're building is worth the talent you have put together to build it. If, particularly at this early stage (the article says the silly words "this late in the game", as though applying to YC is the finish line) your partner were to come to the conclusion that another company were a better opportunity, then your problem is with your business or with your partner. It has nothing to do with other possible businesses that might want your partners talents on their side.

If you're not prepared to deal with the problem of getting and keeping good developers in a highly competitive market, then you're not equipped to deal with running a business in the tech industry. You will be astounded by how hard it is to recruit the very best talent. Middle tier and lesser developers are abundant...it's the cream of the crop, the people who deliver solid, reliable, working code day in and day out, that are difficult to find and to keep.

Welcome to the real world of business, where you have to worry about things like that.

Re: The YC Deadline Brings Out Stupid Decisions in Another Applicant Team

#28

Post by SwellJoe »

Xichekolas wrote: post #19
dfranke wrote: post #2

I don't see why you think it's unethical for them to try to poach your partner. It's not like he's some helpless pawn in this game, especially if he's as smart as you say he is. If I thought I had a chance at getting one of my competitor's best people to come work for me instead, I'd jump on it in an instant.

Yeah, the way this is written it sounds like "your hacker" is Dustin Hoffman in Rainman, and you are his caretaker or something. On a side note: I had no idea YC teams were this competitive with each other. I still had the image of one big Nerd Summer Camp that happened to spit out companies and connections. This makes it sound more like the Skull and Bones guys competing to meet the President at Secret Meeting X.

"I had no idea YC teams were this competitive with each other."

As far as I've seen, they are not (and, neither of these teams is a YC team...they are YC applicants, along with 400+ other teams). The teams tend to be very well-equipped coming into the game and don't really feel the need to break up other teams before they've had a run at it. When a couple of companies fizzled out after the program, I suspect there was a bit of competition for who would get some of the folks from those no longer existent companies, but I'm sure it was friendly (at least I can't imagine any way it could have been otherwise...everybody is still friendly at the events). Others started working on new ideas of their own rather than joining an existing YC company.

Re: The YC Deadline Brings Out Stupid Decisions in Another Applicant Team

#29

Post by edw519 »

SwellJoe wrote: post #27
edw519 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business." And it certainly isn't petty. I don't care how much technical talent you have, if you're not prepared to compete in business, whatever the threat, you're toast. Poaching my people is crossing the line. And I don't care what Paul Graham, David Duncan, or anyone else thinks. On this issue, you shouldn't either. Ethics is non-negotiable.

This isn't a question of ethics. This is a question of whether you and the company you're building is worth the talent you have put together to build it. If, particularly at this early stage (the article says the silly words "this late in the game", as though applying to YC is the finish line) your partner were to come to the conclusion that another company were a better opportunity, then your problem is with your bu…

Why is it, whenever there's an ethical issue on this forum, inevitably, someone steps up and says, "This isn't a question of ethics."

Maybe I'm the one in the wrong place. I certainly hope not. I like it here.

(FWIW: I've been in the "real world of business" since 1979, starting and selling 2 successful start-ups, working on #3. In all that time, nothing has concerned me more than ethical issues. I'd like to think I've been burnt every way possible, but thanks to some of the responses in this forum, now I wonder.)

Re: The YC Deadline Brings Out Stupid Decisions in Another Applicant Team

#30

Post by edw519 »

dfranke wrote: post #25
edw519 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It's not personal, Sonny. It's strictly business." And it certainly isn't petty. I don't care how much technical talent you have, if you're not prepared to compete in business, whatever the threat, you're toast. Poaching my people is crossing the line. And I don't care what Paul Graham, David Duncan, or anyone else thinks. On this issue, you shouldn't either. Ethics is non-negotiable.

"If you're not prepared to compete in business, whatever the threat, you're toast." "Poaching my people is crossing the line." Those two statements look juxtaposed to me. It sounds to me like you're the one who isn't prepared to compete if you aren't willing to pose such a threat to your competitors, or to contend with it when you're on the receiving end.

I'm prepared to compete and have to scars to show for it. I compete by doing the right thing and offering better value to my customers, not by a slime-ball back-door gimmicks, like commandeering others' IP, slamming my competitors, and yes, poaching co-founders in a bar.
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