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Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

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Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#21

Post by derrida »

unreal37 wrote: post #13
mpyne wrote: post #5

"Court records show that, in June, Lavabit complied with a routine search warrant targeting a child pornography suspect in a federal case in Maryland. That suggests that Levison isn’t a privacy absolutist. Whatever compelled him to shut down now must have been exceptional." Wow. Now I'm even more interested at what the NSL/court order was looking for here.

Their shutdown letter talks about the ordeal of the "last 6 weeks", so it definitely has to do with the US Govt trying to force them to change their system to allow them access to emails because of Snowden. The way Microsoft put a back door into the new Outlook.

> The way Microsoft put a back door into the new Outlook

Could someone provide a link for this? Thanks.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#22

Post by lvs »

conductor wrote: post #15

If you are looking for an alternative to Lavabit, try RiseUp [1]. There is a nice read in their "About Us" page [2] [1] - https://riseup.net/en [2] - https://help.riseup.net/en/about-us Added: Though, it is based in Seattle, so what happened to Lavabit can happen to them too, unfortuneately.

All of these centralized services (such as the one you linked) are susceptible to the same strong-arm tactics if they're based in the US.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#23

Post by roc »

wmeredith wrote: post #19
mjfl wrote: post #18

So what happens if this guy starts telling people what happened in that courtroom? He gets arrested? What happened to freedom of speech?

It has been passed over in favor of fighting the terrorist boogieman.

... Harry Wayne Casey?

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#24

Post by jlgreco »

oleganza wrote: post #20
ChuckMcM wrote: post #17

So for those of you wondering about Jury nullification, the way it would work in this case is that Levison would reveal that the NSA was hounding him with NSL letters, they would charge him with violating the terms of the NSL and the jury would acquit him anyway. I hope we can get a case like that to move that aspect of the conversation forward. It helped get bad laws off the books in the civil rights cases and it wo…

Who would risk their own life to do that for "the good of many"? People like Snowden are exceptions, not a rule, because the guns are out there pointed to everyone. Why don't we instead of asking individual heroes to fight a killing machine called "the state", do that: 1. Acknowledge the evil of the state. 2. Find practical non-violent ways to boycott it. E.g. blacklist personally everyone involved in violent aggress…

I doubt, even in our current situation, that Jury members would become targets if they refused to convict.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#25

Post by dragonwriter »

grey-area wrote: post #10
mtgx wrote: post #6

" after secret court battle"? I got the impression the court battle hasn't started yet over this. Or is he talking about that child porn subpoena? But the headline is confusing.

His letter states that he has already made representations twice to the authorities (the FISA court?), but is obliged to keep those secret: As things currently stand, I cannot share my experiences over the last six weeks, even though I have twice made the appropriate requests. https://lavabit.com/

> His letter states that he has already made representations twice to the authorities (the FISA court?)

A Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court order wouldn't be appealed to the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals, it would be appealed to the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court of Review and from there to the US Supreme Court; from the context, then, its likely either a District Court under the Fourth Circuit or the Fourth Circuit itself (possibly both, given the "twice made the appropriate requests") to which application has been made.

Which would make sense if Snowden was targetted, since he is a US person, and an order for surveillance targetting him would go through the regular District Courts, not the FISC/FISCR.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#26

Post by dbarlett »

derrida wrote: post #21
unreal37 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their shutdown letter talks about the ordeal of the "last 6 weeks", so it definitely has to do with the US Govt trying to force them to change their system to allow them access to emails because of Snowden. The way Microsoft put a back door into the new Outlook.

> The way Microsoft put a back door into the new Outlook Could someone provide a link for this? Thanks.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-c...

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#27

Post by Buzaga »

conductor wrote: post #7
oo7jeep wrote: post #2

TL,DR: "This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States."

If this is happening in the USA with its famous constitution, then well, I think the end of this statement can be easily converted just to _any_country_.

That is absurd. Do you think every country, and every country folk, would let the government pass a bulldozer all over their rights like this? This is just projecting.

In other words, that shit wouldn't fly everywhere, for sure. This all emanates from the 9/11 and Patriot Act and Secret Laws with no oversight, that's your problem specifically, of course every government must be wanting it's own surveillance supermachine too, but it doesn't mean every single one of them is willing(or have means) to pass every possible barrier to do it.

Other countries have their own constituitions too and people guarding it, and different political systems, and different relation of the people with their government. Brasilians, for example, are not patriotic(as you are), we like the localization and our folk but absolutely everyone despises the government, the governants are completely cowering with the demonstration, pulling their repression apparatus out and on...

It's absurd and it's also a derrotist statement, this lavabit guy is a hero and the more people go against this rotten government, more clear it becomes the damage is shared by everyone AND the country itself.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#28

Post by dragonwriter »

mtgx wrote: post #6

" after secret court battle"? I got the impression the court battle hasn't started yet over this. Or is he talking about that child porn subpoena? But the headline is confusing.

> I got the impression the court battle hasn't started yet over this.

He wouldn't be continuing the fight in an appeals court if it hand't started in a lower court under that court of appeals.

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#29

Post by sev »

derrida wrote: post #21
unreal37 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their shutdown letter talks about the ordeal of the "last 6 weeks", so it definitely has to do with the US Govt trying to force them to change their system to allow them access to emails because of Snowden. The way Microsoft put a back door into the new Outlook.

> The way Microsoft put a back door into the new Outlook Could someone provide a link for this? Thanks.

Quick search reveals:

Accusation: http://www.tweaktown.com/news/31729/edward-snowden-reveals-t...

Denial: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/07/16/microsoft_denies_it_...

Re: Edward Snowden’s Email Provider Shuts Down Amid Secret Court Battle

#30

Post by siculars »

Distributed cryptography/services in multiple jurisdictions is the only permanent solution or as a delaying tactic at a minimum. Where keys or parts of data or multiple onion style encryption rests in a chain of services distributed globally in multiple jurisdictions. Something like the Ceph file system but for everything.
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