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Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

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Re: Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

#21

Post by discountgenius »

_greim_ wrote: post #16

It saddens me that so much human effort and dedication would be wasted trying to convince more people to become Mormons. I'm glad it at least has a positive outcome of teaching people dedication. I know a few Evangelical missionaries, but it seems like a majority of their efforts are in improving peoples' lives, like building houses, teaching language, etc. I certainly hope Mormon missionaries do the same. Not saying…

Mormons believe that the fastest and best improvements to the quality of life of an individual come through conversion to the church. That being said, the LDS church in general does a lot of humanitarian aid and Mormon missionaries in particular spend significant chunks of time engaged in charitable service.

Source: I served a mission in NYC and we spent plenty of time at soup kitchens, food pantries, and just helping out anyone who needed a hand.

Edit: link to humanitarian aid info: http://mormon.org/values/humanitarian-aid

Re: Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

#22

Post by saosebastiao »

Osiris wrote: post #19
saosebastiao wrote: post #10

It certainly sounds like the typical MTC propaghanda..."work hard on your mission and you'll be blessed with financial success and a hot wife". My own anecdotal evidence is that I have had twice as much financial success, and an even more amazing marriage since I left the church. And some of the more faithful mission companions I've had are still waiting around for their blessings. There are plenty of person accelera…

It sounds like you're equating the 'blessings' of mission service to be 'financial success'. It's important to make the distinction between the spiritual and the temporal. The goals of religion, in generally, are spiritual in nature; for example, learning charity, compassion, forgiveness, kindness, and other non-tangible character attributes. It's possible that in learning these character attributes (such as through…

That is fine, and what you say is closer to the official theology of the church. But church culture, folklore, and action is entirely different. When a faithful member is wealthy, they are assumed to be faithful, and are more likely to receive callings of progressively higher importance. If you could look at the wealth distribution of General Authorities, you would likely find that it is entirely different from the wealth distribution of the general church, or even that of the active members of the church. This is pretty well known (you probably recognize it yourself), even if there isn't any hard data to prove it...and it ends up being explained as blessings which come from faithfulness, which strengthens the folklore explanation.

Re: Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

#23

Post by chrischen »

discountgenius wrote: post #21
_greim_ wrote: post #16

It saddens me that so much human effort and dedication would be wasted trying to convince more people to become Mormons. I'm glad it at least has a positive outcome of teaching people dedication. I know a few Evangelical missionaries, but it seems like a majority of their efforts are in improving peoples' lives, like building houses, teaching language, etc. I certainly hope Mormon missionaries do the same. Not saying…

Mormons believe that the fastest and best improvements to the quality of life of an individual come through conversion to the church. That being said, the LDS church in general does a lot of humanitarian aid and Mormon missionaries in particular spend significant chunks of time engaged in charitable service. Source: I served a mission in NYC and we spent plenty of time at soup kitchens, food pantries, and just helpin…

> Mormons believe that the fastest and best improvements to the quality of life of an individual come through conversion to the church.

Why?

Re: Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

#24

Post by TallGuyShort »

chrischen wrote: post #23
discountgenius wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mormons believe that the fastest and best improvements to the quality of life of an individual come through conversion to the church. That being said, the LDS church in general does a lot of humanitarian aid and Mormon missionaries in particular spend significant chunks of time engaged in charitable service. Source: I served a mission in NYC and we spent plenty of time at soup kitchens, food pantries, and just helpin…

> Mormons believe that the fastest and best improvements to the quality of life of an individual come through conversion to the church. Why?

I would think it's fairly natural that one's belief in God comes with belief that obedience to His teachings and commandments would result in the best outcome. If one believes in Christ, specifically, then it's also natural to combine this belief with service of all kinds - not just proselyting - as the GP comment is suggesting should happen.

I volunteer some of my time overseeing LDS missionary efforts in the Bay Area and they did recently instruct missionaries to step up volunteer efforts in other charitable organizations, with the specific instruction to not make a big deal of who they were or to proselyte during service - so as to make it a sincere effort to improve other people's lives in other ways as well with no hidden or ulterior motives. That being said, it saddens me when people who don't believe in God criticize such efforts as an irrational waste of the human race's resources. You have a right to be atheist, and I would defend that to any other religious person, but I also have every right to continue to be a Christian. I recognize that religion has been used as an excuse to violate the rights of others in the past, but there's no reason why we need to swing society the other way.

Re: Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

#25

Post by chrischen »

TallGuyShort wrote: post #24
chrischen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Mormons believe that the fastest and best improvements to the quality of life of an individual come through conversion to the church. Why?

I would think it's fairly natural that one's belief in God comes with belief that obedience to His teachings and commandments would result in the best outcome. If one believes in Christ, specifically, then it's also natural to combine this belief with service of all kinds - not just proselyting - as the GP comment is suggesting should happen. I volunteer some of my time overseeing LDS missionary efforts in the Bay Ar…

Yes but why not just do good for the sake of good because of a belief that it will be for the benefit of all, the self included. It gives you something to believe in without having a "church" to follow and be told what to do from.

That's what has always struck me negatively, at least from Christianity. When I went to Church, the only reason they told me to follow the commandments or accept Christ was so that I can go to heaven. They were only trying to appeal to my inner-selfishness. I've since changed, and simplified that teaching. Doing good is the natural order and will benefit myself in the long-term for the least amount of total effort invested. It's as simple as that, and no lying required (I say lying because none of the Christians could honestly verify going to heaven, but presented it as if it was basically fact to tons of young impressionable children).

Many pastors I've met always had amazing stories about how they used to be really bad, and gave examples of their previous life behaviors. What's funny is that this did not relate to me at all, as I was never that bad and couldn't imagine why someone would do those (in my opinion) horrible things. It led me to believe that Christianity appealed to those who sinned, because it promised that one thing, forgiveness and salvation, regardless of whether you deserved it. All you had to say was "I believe..."

Not all atheists lack spirituality, and not all are moral-less. You can totally believe in a greater cause without having to invent things.

Re: Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

#26

Post by paulhummer »

I served a slightly more than two year mission in the West Indies (I asked for and was given a 6 week "extension"). I am still active, though I often feel like a square peg in a round hole.

A mission is like college. It is what you make of it. For instance, I was a missionary with a mission. I didn't work too much with people that wanted to waste my time. I looked for people that were ready to make life changing decisions right now. I didn't find "knocking doors"/tracting to be very effective, and so while I did do it sporadically, I found other ways to meet people (ways that likely wouldn't work in the US, mind). I never sat still. I was either out meeting people, teaching them, and finding ways to help them or I was studying and thinking about better ways to help them.

I'm not sure that really made me founder material, but I did get the reap a lot of benefits of hard work. This resulted in me working harder to reap more benefits, and became a positive feedback loop for me.

This is what I have found, ten years later: Mormon missionaries are always two by two because they can't be by themselves (with the exception of being in the toilet). They aren't allowed. And you don't get to pick your "companion". You are assigned a companion and an area. Sometimes you get jerks. Sometimes you get people you just don't have anything in common with. And you don't get to put in a transfer request, or go stay at a friend's house to avoid them. You're with them. Period. This taught me to deal with people that are different than me, and not only "get along" with them, but be effective.

Re: Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

#27

Post by Osiris »

saosebastiao wrote: post #22
Osiris wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like you're equating the 'blessings' of mission service to be 'financial success'. It's important to make the distinction between the spiritual and the temporal. The goals of religion, in generally, are spiritual in nature; for example, learning charity, compassion, forgiveness, kindness, and other non-tangible character attributes. It's possible that in learning these character attributes (such as through…

That is fine, and what you say is closer to the official theology of the church. But church culture, folklore, and action is entirely different. When a faithful member is wealthy, they are assumed to be faithful, and are more likely to receive callings of progressively higher importance. If you could look at the wealth distribution of General Authorities, you would likely find that it is entirely different from the w…

Are you talking about Mormon culture, or Utah culture, because there is a distinction. For example, Utah's tend to be Republican, but not all Mormons are.

As far as General Authorities and church leaders, there's a reason for that. Much of their own living expenses are paid by themselves and not the Church. Mission Presidents, for example, pay their entire way and have to be able to go 3 years without working.

In short, that may be the perception that you have based on your upbringing or experience with certain church members, but shouldn't be extrapolated to the worldwide Church as a whole.

Re: Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

#28

Post by ascotan »

I actually had a very different situation. I felt knocking on doors was easy as a missionary and terribly difficult post-mission when I tried doing door-to-door sales later on. In the end it's where you heart is on whether or not you're going to be success at what you're doing.

I did however, think that missionary work gives you a certain level of maturity that most 19-21 year olds lack at that age.

Re: Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

#29

Post by TallGuyShort »

chrischen wrote: post #25
TallGuyShort wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would think it's fairly natural that one's belief in God comes with belief that obedience to His teachings and commandments would result in the best outcome. If one believes in Christ, specifically, then it's also natural to combine this belief with service of all kinds - not just proselyting - as the GP comment is suggesting should happen. I volunteer some of my time overseeing LDS missionary efforts in the Bay Ar…

Yes but why not just do good for the sake of good because of a belief that it will be for the benefit of all, the self included. It gives you something to believe in without having a "church" to follow and be told what to do from. That's what has always struck me negatively, at least from Christianity. When I went to Church, the only reason they told me to follow the commandments or accept Christ was so that I can go…

Well I (and probably most Mormons, and IMO the Old and New Testament) would absolutely agree with you that service out of sincere love for others and a desire to do good is far more noble than serving with the thought of reward. I don't believe "all you have to say is I believe", because I think faith is not faith if you're not willing to back it up with your actions. Likewise, serving for a reward is better than no service - but it misses the point of actually becoming a happier, more loving person. I think a person who sincerely believes in God and believes we are, in any sense, his children, should feel a natural love towards others and a desire to serve Him and them. I think if a pastor feels they need to motivate with the thought of reward, they've already missed out on that very fundamental point. Going to heaven would be nice, but it shouldn't be the only reason you do good. If it gets you to start serving, great, but I don't believe anyone's going to heaven who doesn't sincerely love their fellow man.

The thing is, though, it's not like I invented my beliefs because I needed a reason to serve - I believe because of (though you may disgaree) rational reasons and experiences I've had that although I can't reproduce them or verify them to others, I consider empirical as far as myself is concerned. If I sincerely believe that to be the truth and a source of great happiness, I wouldn't call it a waste that I spent 2 years inviting others to try achieve the same. If they decline, that's fine and I think no less of them, but it's not like my beliefs are the only reason I have for trying to serve others. I still serve in other ways and for other reasons - believing in God doesn't mean I wouldn't try to do good otherwise.

>> Not all atheists lack spirituality, and not all are moral-less. You can totally believe in a greater cause without having to invent things.

Wholeheartedly agree - I hope I have not implied anything to the contrary.

Re: Mormon Missions: Startup Accelerators?

#30

Post by gagolfnut »

Osiris wrote: post #27
saosebastiao wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is fine, and what you say is closer to the official theology of the church. But church culture, folklore, and action is entirely different. When a faithful member is wealthy, they are assumed to be faithful, and are more likely to receive callings of progressively higher importance. If you could look at the wealth distribution of General Authorities, you would likely find that it is entirely different from the w…

Are you talking about Mormon culture, or Utah culture, because there is a distinction. For example, Utah's tend to be Republican, but not all Mormons are. As far as General Authorities and church leaders, there's a reason for that. Much of their own living expenses are paid by themselves and not the Church. Mission Presidents, for example, pay their entire way and have to be able to go 3 years without working. In sho…

Mission Presidents are reimbursed for ALL of their reasonable and typical expenses. They don't pay their own way like the missionaries do.
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