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Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

thegenesisblock.com

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Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#21

Post by Groxx »

javert wrote: post #8
9ac345a5509a wrote: post #6

According to this calculator [0], in one month, you can expect to earn $20,724.53 dollars (ignoring price changes, difficulty changes, and operating costs). This seems too good to be true, however. Invoking the old adage, "In a gold rush, sell shovels." I wonder what effect all this has on the Bitcoin economy. If everyone begins doing this, then it will become extremely difficult to mine any Bitcoin without any sort…

> it will become extremely difficult to mine any Bitcoin without any sort of gear It already is and has been for a long time > Feathercoin [1] appears to try and stop this, although I am not sure how effective it is. IMHO, Feathercoin should not be taken seriously.

Litecoin as well? I think the goal (forcefully allowing a wider base by reducing the ability of big players) seems like a good one. It prevents centralization, which is kinda the point of the whole thing.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#22

Post by Osiris »

9ac345a5509a wrote: post #6

According to this calculator [0], in one month, you can expect to earn $20,724.53 dollars (ignoring price changes, difficulty changes, and operating costs). This seems too good to be true, however. Invoking the old adage, "In a gold rush, sell shovels." I wonder what effect all this has on the Bitcoin economy. If everyone begins doing this, then it will become extremely difficult to mine any Bitcoin without any sort…

in one month, you can expect to earn $20,724.53 dollars

They were selling the kit for $22,000, so it'll take at least 5 weeks for the ROI, probably longer given there will be at least 2 difficulty resets in that time frame.

I looked at investing in one but I couldn't come up with the funds. Instead I have pre-orders out for gear due in October.

If everyone begins doing this, then it will become extremely difficult to mine any Bitcoin without any sort of gear

This is already the case. I'm mining at about 250GH/s with 3 Avalons and I earn on average about 1.2 BTC per day per machine. A month ago is was closer to 2BTC per machine per day. Right now, GPU mining is dead. It's literally cheaper to buy a bunch of USB sticks that mine at 350MH/s for $100 each than to buy a bunch of video cards as the USB sticks are more power efficient. Even so, depending on the difficulty, those USB sticks could take a year to earn back the 1BTC.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#23

Post by mjs »

There's no technical reason there couldn't be a cloud version of this, but of course it makes absolutely no sense as a cloud service, which make me wonder what's going on here.

An exchange of money for a thing usually means that the buyer wants the thing more than they want the money, and the seller wants the money more than they want the thing, but in this case the seller is selling ... money?

Is, uh, the delivery date guaranteed?

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#24

Post by BocceBaal »

9ac345a5509a wrote: post #6

According to this calculator [0], in one month, you can expect to earn $20,724.53 dollars (ignoring price changes, difficulty changes, and operating costs). This seems too good to be true, however. Invoking the old adage, "In a gold rush, sell shovels." I wonder what effect all this has on the Bitcoin economy. If everyone begins doing this, then it will become extremely difficult to mine any Bitcoin without any sort…

As you can see from http://bitcoindifficulty.com/ the difficulty is growing exponentially. It seems to be doubling every 8 weeks or so. If you get your 400GH/s rig at the end of the month you might not even break even.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#25

Post by makmanalp »

Osiris wrote: post #22
9ac345a5509a wrote: post #6

According to this calculator [0], in one month, you can expect to earn $20,724.53 dollars (ignoring price changes, difficulty changes, and operating costs). This seems too good to be true, however. Invoking the old adage, "In a gold rush, sell shovels." I wonder what effect all this has on the Bitcoin economy. If everyone begins doing this, then it will become extremely difficult to mine any Bitcoin without any sort…

in one month, you can expect to earn $20,724.53 dollars They were selling the kit for $22,000, so it'll take at least 5 weeks for the ROI, probably longer given there will be at least 2 difficulty resets in that time frame. I looked at investing in one but I couldn't come up with the funds. Instead I have pre-orders out for gear due in October. If everyone begins doing this, then it will become extremely difficult to…

If it's so difficult to earn currency, then is it viable to use for end users? Is it just that everyone uses fractions of BTCs now?

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#26

Post by mikeash »

mjs wrote: post #23

There's no technical reason there couldn't be a cloud version of this, but of course it makes absolutely no sense as a cloud service, which make me wonder what's going on here. An exchange of money for a thing usually means that the buyer wants the thing more than they want the money, and the seller wants the money more than they want the thing, but in this case the seller is selling ... money? Is, uh, the delivery d…

It requires some work to set up and use and, probably more importantly, there's substantial risk involved. The $/year this thing can produce is not a fixed quantity, both because the BTC/$ exchange rate is not fixed, and because the BTC/hash rate is not fixed. If the $ made over the lifetime of the unit exceeds its cost, then the buyer wins, and the manufacturer could have theoretically made more money by hanging onto it and running the units themselves. However, that's not guaranteed, and it could be a net loss.

In essence, they're selling a risky bet. It's like a lottery ticket, except more dependent on external factors. The buyers get to make a bet that might pay off, and the seller gets more concrete payment in exchange. It's sort of a physical embodiment of a financial instrument.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#27

Post by Groxx »

Osiris wrote: post #22
9ac345a5509a wrote: post #6

According to this calculator [0], in one month, you can expect to earn $20,724.53 dollars (ignoring price changes, difficulty changes, and operating costs). This seems too good to be true, however. Invoking the old adage, "In a gold rush, sell shovels." I wonder what effect all this has on the Bitcoin economy. If everyone begins doing this, then it will become extremely difficult to mine any Bitcoin without any sort…

in one month, you can expect to earn $20,724.53 dollars They were selling the kit for $22,000, so it'll take at least 5 weeks for the ROI, probably longer given there will be at least 2 difficulty resets in that time frame. I looked at investing in one but I couldn't come up with the funds. Instead I have pre-orders out for gear due in October. If everyone begins doing this, then it will become extremely difficult to…

Since I hadn't heard about the USB sticks, and since the results of those are very relevant, I found this a bit interesting: http://thegenesisblock.com/asicminer-usb-bitcoin-miner-price...

So yeah. The shovels seem to run a decent risk of being worth more to sell than to use.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#28

Post by Groxx »

makmanalp wrote: post #25
Osiris wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in one month, you can expect to earn $20,724.53 dollars They were selling the kit for $22,000, so it'll take at least 5 weeks for the ROI, probably longer given there will be at least 2 difficulty resets in that time frame. I looked at investing in one but I couldn't come up with the funds. Instead I have pre-orders out for gear due in October. If everyone begins doing this, then it will become extremely difficult to…

If it's so difficult to earn currency, then is it viable to use for end users? Is it just that everyone uses fractions of BTCs now?

>is it viable to use for end users?

For mining, no. This was always seen as the future state, it was just a question of when. Not too long before the first ASICs started coming out, it was already basically not profitable for most people, you had to be running a limited set of GPUs and be in a place that had cheap electricity to make any real money.

>Is it just that everyone uses fractions of BTCs now?

Since they're roughly $100 each, yes, basically everyone uses fractions. Thankfully they're way more divisible than e.g. pennies, and if the value / userbase goes up by a couple orders of magnitude, they can be made more divisible, also unlike pennies.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#29

Post by javert »

Groxx wrote: post #21
javert wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it will become extremely difficult to mine any Bitcoin without any sort of gear It already is and has been for a long time > Feathercoin [1] appears to try and stop this, although I am not sure how effective it is. IMHO, Feathercoin should not be taken seriously.

Litecoin as well? I think the goal (forcefully allowing a wider base by reducing the ability of big players) seems like a good one. It prevents centralization, which is kinda the point of the whole thing.

People could still create humongous litecoin mining farms if it were profitable to do so, leading to the same centralization issue of having large mining pools/firms that are somewhat dominant.

That said, the point of Bitcoin is not to avoid that; it is to avoid forced centralization by governments (among other things), which we have for fiat money, and it is succeeding at that.

Bitcoin is not supposed to be a democratic experiment where the little guy gets some kind of special treatment. It is a digital currency that is not backed by force.

I don't think there is any real point in having more than one cryptocurrency. Litecoin could have been great if it had come first, but Bitcoin came first, so I think there is little to no point in having Litecoin.

Re: Bitfury 400 GH/s Bitcoin Mining Rig Hits US Shores

#30

Post by skriticos2 »

makmanalp wrote: post #25
Osiris wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in one month, you can expect to earn $20,724.53 dollars They were selling the kit for $22,000, so it'll take at least 5 weeks for the ROI, probably longer given there will be at least 2 difficulty resets in that time frame. I looked at investing in one but I couldn't come up with the funds. Instead I have pre-orders out for gear due in October. If everyone begins doing this, then it will become extremely difficult to…

If it's so difficult to earn currency, then is it viable to use for end users? Is it just that everyone uses fractions of BTCs now?

Mining is there to make sure there are no double spends. The end user does not need to worry about them. Just sell stuff or buy them at exchanges or the other way around as with any other currency.
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