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Depressed and need advice

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Re: Depressed and need advice

#21

Post by bookreader »

spoiler wrote: post #20
bookreader wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I might be slightly depressed, but the prospect of going back to college is making me unhappy (I think I'm pretty certain of this, but I don't want to go through all the reasons). I did well academically freshman year despite my depression, and at this point I'm mostly wondering how bad dropping out would be for me career wise (and maybe socially). I feel confident that I can make friends outside of school, a…

Of course it shouldn't! If you believe it makes you unhappy, and not simply causing you stress, then you shouldn't go back. I realise your parents and friends might disapprove at first, but you should change their minds by showing them you can do what makes you happy and be successful. It shouldn't make any difference in you social life, because if someone cares that much, they are probably snobby as fuck. However, i…

I'm not worried about developing self esteem issues because of my lack of a degree.

I am somewhat worried about how it could impact my career, though.

Re: Depressed and need advice

#22

Post by rdouble »

Getting into an Ivy League program is pretty hard. Unless you're starting Microsoft or Facebook it seems like a wasted opportunity if you didn't follow through with it. It really opens up a lot of doors you wouldn't have without the degree, or even with a degree from a 2nd tier school.

Re: Depressed and need advice

#23

Post by anigbrowl »

bookreader wrote: post #6
anigbrowl wrote: post #4

I'm smart and dropped out, but regretted it later on both pragmatic and personal bases. Is there a possibility to switch schools, or live off-campus and avoid some of the social stuff? Also, consider taking some of your savings and chatting to a psychologist psychiatrist, one that relates to you as an adult individual instead of a student. If you do drop out your parents will get over it, eventually, but being tagged…

Can you be more specific about why you've regretted dropping out? If you're a programmer, how much has it hurt your career? I unfortunately don't think switching schools is an option for me.

Three reasons.

One, practical: I'm European, and found that my options for living in other countries were narrowed by not having a degree. I would probably have moved to Japan for several years if I had had one, since it's a prerequisite for getting a work visa in that country and (obviously) being a westerner in that country causes you to stick out like a sore thumb and they're super-bureaucratic about this. I'm just personally interested in Japan and Japanese culture, so I regret foreclosing that option for myself.

Two, socioeconomic: although a bit of an introvert, I think there's enormous value to the personal networks you can build up in college, in terms of meeting potential mentors, colleagues and so forth. Now, I think there's (pan-)social downsides to that system, and somewhat disapprove of the whole 'Greek system.' But overall I think college provides access to considerable social capital, whose utility may not be apparent in the short term but which makes a huge difference for most people over the longer term. Most of us are not Bill Gates, and the fact is that Gates inherited a lot of social capital from his parents.

Three, intellectual: Although I enjoy being a self-directed learner and feel pretty confident about my smarts, I do go through deep and horrible abysses of self-doubt, and often feel ashamed of not having fulfilled my intellectual potential by completing and exploiting a degree. I'm just shy of 43 now; whereas in my 20s I felt very proud of my ability to learn, navigate life, and make a living sans degree (and still do in many respects; I've built an impressive resume as a high-level film technician over the last decade despite never having taken a film class), these days I hate admitting that I don't have a degree and feel that my career overall has stalled for lack of direction and focus. True, people often tout their degree as a substitute for actual skill and experience, and an excess focus on credentialism is a negative aspect of our society and economy. But at the same time, I am sick to the back teeth of explaining why I don't have a degree, having to sell myself from scratch every time instead of simply saying 'oh yes, I have a BS in Economics from Berkeley' or whatever. Also, I struggle with a nagging feeling of being a dilettante and lacking a solci intellectual focus, so when I'm down in the dumps I don't feel like a smart guy who has a decent life in defiance of the odds, but a bullshit artist whose run of relative good luck could end at any time. Having to regularly re-sell yourself to yourself on your own merits is just as tiresome as having to sell yourself to others. It's a large and omnipresent confidence drain.

Re: Depressed and need advice

#24

Post by ekanes »

If you feel confident you'd be happy as a developer or an entrepreneur, and given how you feel I think you should drop out. The real world will teach you much more than school. Developers can and are judged on what they've DONE (not by all companies but by many, and certainly enough) and entrepreneurs are judged only by what they've done. The degree doesn't matter imho. Background: I dropped out (data point of one, I know!) of comp sci after first year, ~18 years ago, and have never looked back. Caveat: If you would be a developer, you'd have to be willing to live in a large/progressive city to find the (many!) companies happy to hire you based on what you've done. Go build stuff. School isn't for everyone.

Re: Depressed and need advice

#26

Post by anigbrowl »

bookreader wrote: post #5
mswen wrote: post #3

Does your family know why you took a gap year despite good academic performance? If they don't know the reasons or only have a vague notion of why you took a year off, it might be good to have one of those honest vulnerable conversations and make sure they understand both the situational issues and how it has impacted you emotionally. I am a parent with a 19 year old at university. Despite my ambitions that she proce…

My parents are aware that I was depressed. I've also told them that I think dropping out would be the better choice for my mental health. They disagree and seem to think that I don't have enough wisdom (I think this is what many Asian parents believe about twenty year olds). They're not going to kick me out though if I drop out. And even if they do, I've saved 18k and have contracting work for at least the next year.…

Most parents, not just Asian ones, believe this about 20 year olds. Unfortunately, they're right.

The problem is that parents/society tends to say to 20 year olds 'you just don't know, go ahead and do the conventional thing even if you don't feel good about it, you'll be glad later when it comes to getting a better job/finding a mate/buying your own home.' The benefits of a complete education seem so obvious to them that anyone who doesn't want one appears obtuse, so they don't make much effort to sell the notion, any more than you or I would seriously entertain a kid's stated willingness to be illiterate or innumerate.

If I could invent a time machine ('and if I had gone to college, maybe I could...' - nagging doubt like that hangs around :-) ), then I'd go back and tell my youthful self that there's a bunch of cool stuff I'm missing out on, even if if I have to go through a few false starts within the tertiary education system before finding the right path.

It's obviously not true that you can't get an education except by going to college, because any smart person can educate themselves to a great degree, and often at considerable speed. But proof of education is a valuable asset, and access to a large social network and intellectual depth in an environment devoted to rewarding your curiosity it a huge huge benefit.

What sort of things do you want to do in your life? Obviously it's nice too be financially independent and so on right now, but that's practical stuff. Look beyond your immediate needs, and assume for a minute that you'll probably be able to enjoy a pleasant lifestyle and reasonable financial security because you were lucky enough to get born where and when you did etc.. What would you like to work on that you can't possibly do right now, but could imagine doing one day? Astronaut? Tycoon? Philosopher? Dentist? (I presume some people must enjoy dentistry rather than just doing it because it pays well)

Give your imagination some time to operate. There must be something that you're interested in that would be an awful lot easier to achieve with an Ivy-league education. Don't be too quick to rule out wacky possibilities because they seem wacky. If you secretly dream of being Indiana Jones, then you'll need an archaeology degree. Never mind just now how many jobs there are for archaeologists, that's just a matter of competition which can come later. Likewise, programming as you're doing now is an excellent means of making a living and you could become $uper rich. The question is whether being a computer programmer is the most awesome and desirable thing you can imagine wanting to do with your life, or whether you're just doing it because it's cool and you're good at it.

Re: Depressed and need advice

#27

Post by anigbrowl »

anigbrowl wrote: post #23
bookreader wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you be more specific about why you've regretted dropping out? If you're a programmer, how much has it hurt your career? I unfortunately don't think switching schools is an option for me.

Three reasons. One, practical: I'm European, and found that my options for living in other countries were narrowed by not having a degree. I would probably have moved to Japan for several years if I had had one, since it's a prerequisite for getting a work visa in that country and (obviously) being a westerner in that country causes you to stick out like a sore thumb and they're super-bureaucratic about this. I'm jus…

PS you can email me if you want.

Re: Depressed and need advice

#28

Post by bookreader »

anigbrowl wrote: post #26
bookreader wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My parents are aware that I was depressed. I've also told them that I think dropping out would be the better choice for my mental health. They disagree and seem to think that I don't have enough wisdom (I think this is what many Asian parents believe about twenty year olds). They're not going to kick me out though if I drop out. And even if they do, I've saved 18k and have contracting work for at least the next year.…

Most parents, not just Asian ones, believe this about 20 year olds. Unfortunately, they're right. The problem is that parents/society tends to say to 20 year olds 'you just don't know, go ahead and do the conventional thing even if you don't feel good about it, you'll be glad later when it comes to getting a better job/finding a mate/buying your own home.' The benefits of a complete education seem so obvious to them…

I think the problem is that my parents seem to feel that college is a necessity for a good life, which I think I disagree with. There seem to be plenty of programmers without degrees.

The things I'm really interested in doing beyond practical needs don't require a college degree, and in some ways I think three years in the real world would be more valuable. I'm interested in entrepreneurship and non-fiction / fiction writing, and both of those seem to benefit heavily from real world experience.

Re: Depressed and need advice

#29

Post by fusiongyro »

rdouble wrote: post #19
fusiongyro wrote: post #9

You should come to New Mexico Tech. We have a great CS program which is essentially throwing you in the deep end and seeing if you can swim. We are far, far away from your overbearing family and whatever horrifying social situation at your old school, over here in Socorro, New Mexico. Even if you got no financial assistance at all, you could pay for two or three years just with the 18K you have saved up now, and that…

Your math seems off. I looked at the New Mexico Tech website, and it estimates that the costs per semester are around $15,000. http://www.nmt.edu/tuition-and-fees

Tuition seems to have gone up since I last looked.

$4K of that cost is based on staying in the dorms. You can rent a house for $800-1000/month in Socorro, split 2 to 4 ways, and there are studio apartments in the area for as low as $250. Still, these costs are essentially for your first year; after that it goes down considerably, and if you have a 3.25 or 3.5 you're eligible for a $4/5K/year transfer scholarship.

I have no idea where they got that $1600 "travel" cost estimate from.

Re: Depressed and need advice

#30

Post by anigbrowl »

bookreader wrote: post #28
anigbrowl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most parents, not just Asian ones, believe this about 20 year olds. Unfortunately, they're right. The problem is that parents/society tends to say to 20 year olds 'you just don't know, go ahead and do the conventional thing even if you don't feel good about it, you'll be glad later when it comes to getting a better job/finding a mate/buying your own home.' The benefits of a complete education seem so obvious to them…

I think the problem is that my parents seem to feel that college is a necessity for a good life, which I think I disagree with. There seem to be plenty of programmers without degrees. The things I'm really interested in doing beyond practical needs don't require a college degree, and in some ways I think three years in the real world would be more valuable. I'm interested in entrepreneurship and non-fiction / fiction…

Well, it helps. And don't make the mistake of thinking that college is not real life, just because it's curated. Think of it like an intellectual shopping mall :-)
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