Live data from Hacker News

Perl Startups: Lacuna Expanse

blogs.perl.org

21–30 of 87 posts

Re: Perl Startups: Lacuna Expanse

#21
post #2

a bit off topic, but i really wish if jetbrains creates an ide for perl, similar to their pycharm or phpstorm i believe compared to other younger languages perl can be overwhelming, and i think a great ide will go a long way reducing the barrier of entry to new comers

I'd venture to guess that they aren't doing that because there's little to no market for it.

Although Perl is now a general-purpose programming language, it originated as a scripting language for UNIX systems administration and for parsing text files. Perl's traditional use case is one where you're working on a UNIX server through an SSH terminal, so you only have vi/vim or maybe emacs. In that situation, GUI IDEs are not really an option, and trying to use them kind of goes against the whole purpose and culture of Perl. If you're using Perl, you're probably already comfortable working in a command line terminal and have no need for an IDE.

Also, Perl is complicated and looks "like a cartoon character swearing" (-pg) but a nice thing about Perl is that to learn it, you really only need a computer with an OS (which will come with Perl installed on it as long as it isn't Windows) and the camel book.

Re: Perl Startups: Lacuna Expanse

#22
lacuna:

1. An empty space or a missing part; a gap: "self-centered in opinion, with curious lacunae of astounding ignorance" (Frank Norris).

2. Anatomy A cavity, space, or depression, especially in a bone, containing cartilage or bone cells.

___________________________________________

Is Lacuna Expanse(LE) modeled on EVE Online? I do not know about games as my boxes always appear limited, connection slow, and there is a learning curve to these sprawling fantastic worlds. Popular EVE Online has beautiful Youtube vids, so the tease is there. LE looks more accessible, and from the OP, a perl API to grow the LE expanse. There must be many isolated(frustrated?) perl programmers that will be drawn into this Lucana universe.

I've a suspicion while never having personally faced this argument other than adapting snippets of CPAN perl module source, like lisp's power to individually coin, perl's 'more than one way to do it' may become a handicap when projects scale big and it depends on walking through other's code beyond the standard gluing of perl modules.

...space jump on over to LE right now...

Login `empire name'? What's this? Not user name? ... here we go, tutorial = vids w/ emails

Re: Perl Startups: Lacuna Expanse

#23
The largest reason why I would hesitate to use Perl in my startup would be the core philosophy of TIMTOWTDI (there is more than one way to do it). Being able to write something multiple different ways leads to Perl being a lot easier to write than it is to read. As a result code maintenance can become a huge headache due to someone not understanding the idioms used by the person who originally wrote the code.

I've seen this happen on a number of projects that I've worked with using Perl. Typically a person wouldn't be familiar with "silver ball" (Effective Perl Programming), would go off an write a large body of code which would be difficult to wade through. This gets exacerbated by new coders not understanding how perl expects you to understand some of its idioms (like $_, @_, etc.) implicitly. Because reading other people's code is a great way to learn a language, this makes Perl a lot less approachable.

I think Ruby suffers from some of these problems to a certain degree as well. I haven't worked with Ruby professionally, but in the few times I've played around with it I've found myself spending a lot of time trying to figure out which looping construct I should use over another.

Python does have a leg up in this department. The language tends to be fairly succinct and things like Pep8 and flake8 really help in making most code fairly digestible.

Re: Perl Startups: Lacuna Expanse

#25
post #2

a bit off topic, but i really wish if jetbrains creates an ide for perl, similar to their pycharm or phpstorm i believe compared to other younger languages perl can be overwhelming, and i think a great ide will go a long way reducing the barrier of entry to new comers

Ever heard of Komodo? I've been using it for years for Perl development, plus it supports Python, Ruby, and a host of other languages.

I wouldn't consider doing any serious Perl dev without it.

Re: Perl Startups: Lacuna Expanse

#26

The largest reason why I would hesitate to use Perl in my startup would be the core philosophy of TIMTOWTDI (there is more than one way to do it). Being able to write something multiple different ways leads to Perl being a lot easier to write than it is to read. As a result code maintenance can become a huge headache due to someone not understanding the idioms used by the person who originally wrote the code. I've se…

You can get around readability with good comments. Perl can be a b*tch to deduce - but it is simple and powerful.

I would also think hiring professional, experienced, Perl coders for a decent salary is easier than finding Rails, node,etc. (I've used Perl and Ruby for quite some time in the past. My last startup is still looking for more Rails engineers. I chose Rails because it was a good fit, but finding talent can be hard).

Re: Perl Startups: Lacuna Expanse

#27

I love his system of regularly evaluating other languages to see what advantages they might offer him. It just goes to show: Don't worry about using the "best language", just use the best language for you .

Based on what he posted, either he's doing an extremely superficial comparison or he's done a proper one and realised there is actually not a lot in it when talking about modern languages. Fair enough, he wants to continue to use Perl because it's familiar and there aren't really massive advantages to using the other languages, that's a fair point, but state that as opposed to having a tone that suggests Perl is a be…

It was an interview on a Perl blog, so the target audience is people already enthusiastic about Perl.

Here's why I think learning Perl is worth it: a lot of programmers write stuff in it. It won't make you know other languages any less.

Re: Perl Startups: Lacuna Expanse

#28
post #6

>Ruby - Now that Perl has Dancer/Plack/Moose, Ruby has nothing that Perl doesn't have (at least that I've seen). Therefore no reason to switch. >Python - Basically the same argument as Ruby, except that in my opinion Python isn't half as good of a language as Ruby. IMO he kinda missed the main ideological differences, benefits, pros, cons of both ruby and python.

I don't have the feeling he did a serious analysis of any of languages, he sounds that he wants to work with what he knows.

I was very excited to see a startup using PERL but it's a pity the article fall into a languages war.

Re: Perl Startups: Lacuna Expanse

#30

"Python isn't half as good of a language as Ruby." "C# isn't quite as good as Java" Can anyone who truly believes these things be taken seriously, really?

This is the part he lost me at as well. You can tell very little research went into the article when you quantify the broad-scope merits of any language. You can't say Python is 50 good, while Ruby is 100 good.
Post reply on HN