Do the right thing, wait to get fired • Hacker News Board

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#21

Post by moocow01 » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 1:02 AM UTC

As could be posted at the top of just about every HN article this is highly situational.

If you are in a prototyping, web advertising, etc etc business - sure, your probably just feeding your employer new business strategies to make everyone money. The business is typically fine with experimenting with new ideas hoping to uncover a new money machine - obviously Google's business model is a great fit for this and they seemingly encourage it.

If your doing what Ill call "real engineering" (to ruffle some feathers) on large intricate system this could be a very bad idea. Perhaps you even think your doing the right thing but if you're working within a highly technical environment with many participants you are just going to look immature.

In other words, imagine if everyone at Boeing adopted this strategy as individuals - I think we'd all be opting for taking the Greyhound bus.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#22

Post by groby_b » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 1:09 AM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

To his credit though Chade-Meng Tan earned some infamy by intercepting celebrities walking through the door and getting his picture taken with them :-) Not exactly "Good for Google" but not something that generally got you fired either. I'm all in favor of encouraging self empowerment but recognize that it means you will get fired more. It is the cost of doing what you believe. Not everyone is ok with that and I resp…

Say what? I've always followed that course of action, and so far - knock on wood - I have not been fired for it. And that spans about 25 years.

If what you believe in and what the company believes in are not aligned, you realize that usually well before there's any talk of firing. Just go look for a new job that is more aligned with what you believe in.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#23

Post by rachelbythebay » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 1:19 AM UTC

There are worse things than being fired. You could be routed to a series of useless assignments, or worse, actively destructive ones. Then you wind up having to fire yourself for your own sanity.

Of course, this all assumes you have sufficient privilege to be able to carry it off. There's a reason it's called FU money.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#24

Post by foobarbazqux » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 1:22 AM UTC

nbouscal wrote: post #13

foobarbazqux wrote: post #10

> You’ve got to recognize that companies are schizophrenic. They build process, and rules, and structure and they ask you to follow them: > [...] > But greatness rarely happens by following rules, process and structure. That is why companies also want to find employees ready to take risks, make decisions, try new things, move fast and even break things. The inconsistencies and contradictions you describe are not symp…

It was clear from the context that he was not using 'schizophrenic' as a medical label (since he was not applying it to a human), but rather as a metaphor that most people would easily understand. Picking nits does not contribute to the conversation, but rather diverts from it (as we can observe happening in this very comment). Since you seem to have an opinion on the conversation, namely that the goals he lists are…

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/schizophrenic

What can I say, the informal usage of the word irritates me.

I'm sure if he said that companies are kind of gay, and then proceeded to list a bunch of qualities that had nothing to do with homosexuality but rather the informal usage of the term (as we all know all too well from high school), it would be a problem. Same thing.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#25

Post by singlow » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 1:23 AM UTC

moocow01 wrote: post #21

As could be posted at the top of just about every HN article this is highly situational. If you are in a prototyping, web advertising, etc etc business - sure, your probably just feeding your employer new business strategies to make everyone money. The business is typically fine with experimenting with new ideas hoping to uncover a new money machine - obviously Google's business model is a great fit for this and they…

I didn't take it that he was referring to making your own choices on every technical decision - but rather about ethical decisions.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#26

Post by moocow01 » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 1:30 AM UTC

singlow wrote: post #25

moocow01 wrote: post #21

As could be posted at the top of just about every HN article this is highly situational. If you are in a prototyping, web advertising, etc etc business - sure, your probably just feeding your employer new business strategies to make everyone money. The business is typically fine with experimenting with new ideas hoping to uncover a new money machine - obviously Google's business model is a great fit for this and they…

I didn't take it that he was referring to making your own choices on every technical decision - but rather about ethical decisions.

"I do the Right Thing for Google and the world"

I think it pertains to technical or ethical or anything else. The risk is that what you think is the right thing may be the right thing for one person but the wrong thing for another - in fact Id say most decisions fall under this umbrella.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#27

Post by jamesaguilar » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 1:31 AM UTC

foobarbazqux wrote: post #10

> You’ve got to recognize that companies are schizophrenic. They build process, and rules, and structure and they ask you to follow them: > [...] > But greatness rarely happens by following rules, process and structure. That is why companies also want to find employees ready to take risks, make decisions, try new things, move fast and even break things. The inconsistencies and contradictions you describe are not symp…

Oh, man, love me some pedantry. Could be the most productive of all engineering attributes. (Followed by sarcasm T_T.)

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#28

Post by vacri » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 1:33 AM UTC

This is a variant of "it's easier to get forgiveness than permission", but with a more positive bent. Getting all the right permissions from everyone can be a monumental task, but just going ahead and doing things, then waiting to be corrected as needs be... gets more done.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#29

Post by ChuckMcM » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 1:33 AM UTC

groby_b wrote: post #22

ChuckMcM wrote: post #2

To his credit though Chade-Meng Tan earned some infamy by intercepting celebrities walking through the door and getting his picture taken with them :-) Not exactly "Good for Google" but not something that generally got you fired either. I'm all in favor of encouraging self empowerment but recognize that it means you will get fired more. It is the cost of doing what you believe. Not everyone is ok with that and I resp…

Say what? I've always followed that course of action, and so far - knock on wood - I have not been fired for it. And that spans about 25 years. If what you believe in and what the company believes in are not aligned, you realize that usually well before there's any talk of firing. Just go look for a new job that is more aligned with what you believe in.

Its the challenge of the argument in the large vs the argument in the small. Specifically not everyone has taste.

I have met people who follow this mantra and have been fired repeatedly, I know folks like the one in the parent who have operated this way their entire career and have been quite successful at it.

Think of it as the "Don't try this at home" admonition. They say that because not everyone will understand both the risks and the implication of the risks, not because as reasonably cautious and intelligent person could not pull off exactly the same stunt "at home."

As with all things, if you find yourself getting fired a lot for doing the "right thing" in your estimation, then its time to take a look at your compass.

Re: Do the right thing, wait to get fired

#30

Post by foobarbazqux » Fri, Jul 12, 2013, 1:38 AM UTC

jamesaguilar wrote: post #27

foobarbazqux wrote: post #10

> You’ve got to recognize that companies are schizophrenic. They build process, and rules, and structure and they ask you to follow them: > [...] > But greatness rarely happens by following rules, process and structure. That is why companies also want to find employees ready to take risks, make decisions, try new things, move fast and even break things. The inconsistencies and contradictions you describe are not symp…

Oh, man, love me some pedantry. Could be the most productive of all engineering attributes. (Followed by sarcasm T_T.)

The irony here is the truth in your sarcasm. I guess it depends on how you define productive. Would you want a non-pedantic engineer to build you a bridge?