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U.S. spied on millions of e-mails and calls of Brazilians

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Re: U.S. spied on millions of e-mails and calls of Brazilians

#21

Post by mtgx »

pvnick wrote: post #4

Greenwald's english synopsis: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/07/nsa-braz... It's interesting to see him strategically releasing these stories to maximize impact of the information. While I'm sure Latin American leaders knew of or at least suspected NSA spying, seeing confirmation in such a revealing way must certainly strengthen their resolve to stand up to the US "treating them as colonies," which…

> America respects international law on not torturing to some debatable degree

Yes, they respect it by calling it "advanced interrogation techniques" or something like that. So they aren't doing "torture", therefore it's legal, just like "don't call it bribe, call it "campaign donations", so then it's legal, too.

A lot of stuff is handled this way in US, especially after 9/11. A lot of 1984 newspeak.

Re: U.S. spied on millions of e-mails and calls of Brazilians

#22

Post by rbanffy »

edcastro wrote: post #16

Article also states that the Brazilians are the most monitored nation in Latin America. Given that other countries in Latin America has showed far less "cooperative" with the US in the past, this took me by surprise. Maybe it's also oil related since the discovery of a humongous pre-salt layer[1] might be of interest to US? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-salt_layer

Petrobrás was a pioneer in deep sea oil extraction and obtaining whatever technologies they developed for that is a vital interest for oil dependent countries. Much like Canada spied on Embraer to further Bombardier's interests, I wouldn't be surprised to see the US doing the same. I would be surprised if they didn't.

What astonishes me is not that it's happening, but the sheer scale of the thing. I would find odd my mail being of interest, but why in hell would anyone be interested on what my mom exchanges with her friends?

Re: U.S. spied on millions of e-mails and calls of Brazilians

#24

Post by Jach »

joe_the_user wrote: post #9
gcb0 wrote: post #3

Isn't this what the NSA was started for anyway? What is the surprise here? "Agency created to spy on foreign powers is spying on foreign powers"... really?

I am not sure if an average Brazilian thinks of themselves as a "foreign power". Would you be happy to have the government of a random country, say Russia, Brazil, Albania or whereever, reading your emails?

Well, the Federative Republic of Brazil is a democratic republic, with elections for their president every four years, so that does imply the average Brazilian has a little bit of power that is foreign from the US perspective. (If you buy this whole democracy thing, you might think that's good!)

I wonder if a restoration to monarchies would encourage agencies of the crown to keep their spying to other royal and powerful persons, since then the average subject would indeed have no power.

Re: U.S. spied on millions of e-mails and calls of Brazilians

#25

Post by merraksh »

pvnick wrote: post #4

Greenwald's english synopsis: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jul/07/nsa-braz... It's interesting to see him strategically releasing these stories to maximize impact of the information. While I'm sure Latin American leaders knew of or at least suspected NSA spying, seeing confirmation in such a revealing way must certainly strengthen their resolve to stand up to the US "treating them as colonies," which…

America respects international law on not torturing to some debatable degree

First, by "America" you mean "The USA". I don't want to be nitpicking, but since the article is about another country of the Americas I'd clarify that.

Second, the US do not torture people but on their own soil, but practice it through third parties. Finally, the US do not recognize the International Criminal Court.

Re: U.S. spied on millions of e-mails and calls of Brazilians

#26

Post by merraksh »

rbanffy wrote: post #22
edcastro wrote: post #16

Article also states that the Brazilians are the most monitored nation in Latin America. Given that other countries in Latin America has showed far less "cooperative" with the US in the past, this took me by surprise. Maybe it's also oil related since the discovery of a humongous pre-salt layer[1] might be of interest to US? [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-salt_layer

Petrobrás was a pioneer in deep sea oil extraction and obtaining whatever technologies they developed for that is a vital interest for oil dependent countries. Much like Canada spied on Embraer to further Bombardier's interests, I wouldn't be surprised to see the US doing the same. I would be surprised if they didn't. What astonishes me is not that it's happening, but the sheer scale of the thing. I would find odd my…

why in hell would anyone be interested on what my mom exchanges with her friends?

To ensure complete information collection, it would not be smart of any spying agency to only target "suspicious" email accounts, when a suspect could use their own mother's email to communicate to other suspects' mother's email.

Much like airport security does random searches instead of targeted searches (to only people with Middle Eastern features, for instance), randomizing probably helps. It helps even more to gather information from ALL email accounts.

Re: U.S. spied on millions of e-mails and calls of Brazilians

#27

Post by alan_cx »

This could be exactly what Brazilian politicians need.

Right now Brazil is deeply divided, the people feel very let down and undervalued, there are mass protests and demonstrations of the streets. A sort of South American spring as it were. Now, the politicians may be able to divert attention on to a common enemy.

Of course, diverting attention to what could be seen as international concerns, might just annoy the population more.

Dunno, but I do see potential political use for this latest information.

Re: U.S. spied on millions of e-mails and calls of Brazilians

#28

Post by rbanffy »

merraksh wrote: post #26
rbanffy wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Petrobrás was a pioneer in deep sea oil extraction and obtaining whatever technologies they developed for that is a vital interest for oil dependent countries. Much like Canada spied on Embraer to further Bombardier's interests, I wouldn't be surprised to see the US doing the same. I would be surprised if they didn't. What astonishes me is not that it's happening, but the sheer scale of the thing. I would find odd my…

why in hell would anyone be interested on what my mom exchanges with her friends? To ensure complete information collection, it would not be smart of any spying agency to only target "suspicious" email accounts, when a suspect could use their own mother's email to communicate to other suspects' mother's email. Much like airport security does random searches instead of targeted searches (to only people with Middle Eas…

Makes sense. Now I would understand why they intercept my mom's mail, but, then, why every friend of hers? I'm, sure there are people more than one degree away from anyone of interest.

Re: U.S. spied on millions of e-mails and calls of Brazilians

#29

Post by a3n »

bandushrew wrote: post #17
gcb0 wrote: post #3

Isn't this what the NSA was started for anyway? What is the surprise here? "Agency created to spy on foreign powers is spying on foreign powers"... really?

If the Americans were spying on foreign powers, or even my country's politicians I really would not be surprised. For some reason they appear to be spying on me, specifically. I do find that surprising, yes. Shocking, even. Scary, certainly. What will they do if I say something they don't like? How will I know? Who is deciding whether what I am saying is acceptable? Because I am against this spying, have the American…

> What will they do if I say something they don't like? How will I know?

By denying entry to you on your next vacation or business trip to the United States.

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