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FBI Document: [DELETED] had "plan to kill local Occupy leaders via sniper fire"

whowhatwhy.com

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Re: FBI Document: [DELETED] had "plan to kill local Occupy leaders via sniper fire"

#21

Post by DannyBee »

archgoon wrote: post #10

Huh. I looked up conspiracy laws in the US: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspiracy_%28crime%29#United_... "Under most U.S. laws, for a person to be convicted of conspiracy not only must he or she agree to commit a crime, but at least one of the conspirators must commit an overt act (the actus reus) in furtherance of the crime." Does anyone know if the FBI could have arrested them on conspiracy to commit murder?

Need more details.

So, here is the common law/generic multistate answer (and what would have been chargeable in my old state):

If someone asked someone else to help them kill occupy leaders, this would have been solicitation (and the crime would be completed whether they said yes or no).

If they both agreed, and then committed some overt act in furtherance, it would be conspiracy. The overt act does not have to be related to the target offense of the conspiracy, just in furtherance. IE if you are being charged with conspiracy to commit murder, the overt act does not need to be "buying a gun". It could be "stealing money from an old lady that was later used to buy a gun".

Here, it just says "they planned to obtain intelligence, and then formulate a plan to kill people".

If they really just planned to have a plan, that doesn't seem like a conspiracy to commit murder, unless they all had really agreed to commit murder, and were still working out the details. It's not really clear.

Re: FBI Document: [DELETED] had "plan to kill local Occupy leaders via sniper fire"

#22

Post by tlrobinson »

The question is who is [DELETED] and what would their motive be?

Killing Occupy "leaders" seems like the absolute worst way to make the Occupy problem go away. Can you even imagine the outrage?

The only way it could possibly be successful is by making it clear that if you protest you will be killed, and I like to think we're still pretty damn far from complete totalitarianism.

Re: FBI Document: [DELETED] had "plan to kill local Occupy leaders via sniper fire"

#23

Post by bayesianhorse »

lifeguard wrote: post #18

Totally integrated corporate-state repression of dissent http://s3.amazonaws.com/dk-production/images/14030/large/Occ...

To my knowledge, actions against occupy-movements in the US generally didn't involve "repression of dissent" but rather "repression of wild camping where it is extremely inconvenient for everyone else".

Not everything they did was totally appropriate, but on the other hand it's really hard to dissolve such a camp without anyone getting hurt. The US certainly handled that better than Turkey.

Re: FBI Document: [DELETED] had "plan to kill local Occupy leaders via sniper fire"

#24

Post by contingencies »

furyofantares wrote: post #20
gasull wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTA: The use of the phrase ‘if deemed necessary,’ sounds like it was some kind of official organization that was doing the planning.” In other words, the “identified [DELETED” mentioned in the Houston FBI document may have been some other agency with jurisdiction in the area, which was calculatedly making plans to kill Occupy activists.

That reads like pure speculation

As does your comment. Hell, so does mine. We're not in S-expressions anymore, Toto!

Re: FBI Document: [DELETED] had "plan to kill local Occupy leaders via sniper fire"

#25

Post by cjambassador318 »

gasull wrote: post #12

I've done some research before upvoting this. I thought whowhatwhy.com would be some kind of conspiracy site, but they just do investigative journalism. They are usually featured in Salon.com. http://www.salon.com/topic/whowhatwhy/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Baker Also, it's known that the FBI coordinated the crackdown on Occupy: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coor...

Well that definitely justifies upvoting a speculative conspiracy theory to the front page of Hacker News.

Given that the US is literally Nazi Germany, it's 100% believable that the FBI would murder protesters.

I wish the sheeple could see the US for what it really is: literally Nazi Germany. People like us here on HN and reddit understand what's really going on, unlike the sheeple.

Re: FBI Document: [DELETED] had "plan to kill local Occupy leaders via sniper fire"

#26

Post by cjambassador318 »

angersock wrote: post #13
zmmmmm wrote: post #5

I'm going to cling on to hope that there is some kind of context missing here, because taking that paragraph at face value is terrifying. (Example of context I hope is missing would be text like ... "In the event that members of the Occupy Movement have obtained a nuclear weapon and are threatening to detonate it ...")

Nah, probably not. Who cares about the shooting of some homeless and some damn hippies, right? Edit: Folks, the country I grew up in and my ancestors fought for knew of a potential assassination attempt on innocent civilians, and apparently didn't care enough to warn the cops standing watch. Forgive me a little fucking gallows humor.

Who cares about shooting some homeless and some damn hippies?

Definitely not the US government which is literally worse than Nazi Germany.

Sheeple need to wake up.

Also lol: Engineer, coder, and all around cheerful human being.

Re: FBI Document: [DELETED] had "plan to kill local Occupy leaders via sniper fire"

#28

Post by brymaster »

gasull wrote: post #12

I've done some research before upvoting this. I thought whowhatwhy.com would be some kind of conspiracy site, but they just do investigative journalism. They are usually featured in Salon.com. http://www.salon.com/topic/whowhatwhy/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Baker Also, it's known that the FBI coordinated the crackdown on Occupy: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coor...

But how can this be true?!

tptacek just told us [1]:

> nobody is going to shoot you and your friends in the head for marching around

and

> They won't even point firehoses at you, or sic dogs on you. You are freer than Americans have been at virtually any other point in our country's history

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5987208

Re: FBI Document: [DELETED] had "plan to kill local Occupy leaders via sniper fire"

#30

Post by sbisker »

gasull wrote: post #12

I've done some research before upvoting this. I thought whowhatwhy.com would be some kind of conspiracy site, but they just do investigative journalism. They are usually featured in Salon.com. http://www.salon.com/topic/whowhatwhy/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russ_Baker Also, it's known that the FBI coordinated the crackdown on Occupy: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/dec/29/fbi-coor...

Eh, I'm with you right down to the point in the article where they start talking about this company Craft International who trained law enforcement snipers, and oh by the way were also at the Boston Marathon carrying backpacks with "markings resembling what was seen on an exploded backpack image released by the FBI."

Insinuating something both totally unrelated and highly conspiratorial is not how good investigative journalism works, and unfortunately that sort of slant takes away from my ability to fairly judge the facts of the piece.

That said, to be clear, I do appreciate the research you put in, and thanks for being thoughtful in your upvotes - just thought I'd offer that part of the article as a counterpoint.

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