3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament • Hacker News Board

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#21

Post by refurb » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 3:27 AM UTC

The thing I don't get is how a plastic gun suddenly becomes a problem if it's 3D printed.

You can construct (a very crude) gun barrel for .22LR out of 3/4" plastic bar using nothing more than a 1/4" drill bit. You need a mechanism to fire the round, but since you just need to crush the primer, it doesn't have to be anything fancy. Of course you have no rifling and a poor seal so the bullet tumbles and isn't effective more than 10-20 ft away, but it's deadly up close.

Since plastics became commonly available over 50 years ago, I don't understand why everyone is suddenly concerned about plastic guns from 3D printing. What is a criminal more likely to do, buy a 3D printing machine for several hundred dollars, learn how to use the software correctly and print a gun OR just buy some plastic and make one himself for $10 and a few hours of his time?

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#22

Post by Sukotto » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 3:29 AM UTC

lemming wrote: post #3

3d printed guns are one of the few things I can think of that will make air travel even more inconvenient than it is now. This is going to be bad.

I believe it's still easier to suborn one of the cleaning staff, delivery vehicle workers, service techs, ground crew, or other trusted person to carry your weapons into the "secure" zone.

Could be at any domestic airport since once you get your badguy stuff inside the wall, you can carry it anywhere inside the system before using it.

There are a lot of potential attack vectors but I do not feel safe to talk about them in detail.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#23

Post by chrischen » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 3:34 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #21

The thing I don't get is how a plastic gun suddenly becomes a problem if it's 3D printed. You can construct (a very crude) gun barrel for .22LR out of 3/4" plastic bar using nothing more than a 1/4" drill bit. You need a mechanism to fire the round, but since you just need to crush the primer, it doesn't have to be anything fancy. Of course you have no rifling and a poor seal so the bullet tumbles and isn't effective…

He may not do that, but he could go and buy a plastic gun for $10 from someone who does know how to use a 3D printer.

Think about this: a curious kid could accidentally shoot himself now in many fewer steps than before. Download, load it into dad's printer, assemble. Though, I'm assuming these plastic guns still need real bullets.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#24

Post by e12e » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 3:34 AM UTC

Sukotto wrote: post #22

lemming wrote: post #3

3d printed guns are one of the few things I can think of that will make air travel even more inconvenient than it is now. This is going to be bad.

I believe it's still easier to suborn one of the cleaning staff, delivery vehicle workers, service techs, ground crew, or other trusted person to carry your weapons into the "secure" zone. Could be at any domestic airport since once you get your badguy stuff inside the wall, you can carry it anywhere inside the system before using it. There are a lot of potential attack vectors but I do not feel safe to talk about th…

Yeah, or drug the air marshal, assuming the US still puts armed personnel on flights?

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#25

Post by MikeCapone » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 3:38 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #21

The thing I don't get is how a plastic gun suddenly becomes a problem if it's 3D printed. You can construct (a very crude) gun barrel for .22LR out of 3/4" plastic bar using nothing more than a 1/4" drill bit. You need a mechanism to fire the round, but since you just need to crush the primer, it doesn't have to be anything fancy. Of course you have no rifling and a poor seal so the bullet tumbles and isn't effective…

> Since plastics became commonly available over 50 years ago, I don't understand why everyone is suddenly concerned about plastic guns from 3D printing.

It's a zeitgeist thing, IMO. 3D printing is hot in the media, so interesting stories about it (good and bad) tend to get more attention than they would if the same thing had been done by conventional means.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#26

Post by minopret » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 4:24 AM UTC

aray wrote: post #6

Title doesn't (really) reflect that this was part of a test, and not that someone was found to have smuggled a 3D printed weapon in. Also, the article does not mention whether or not ammunition was smuggled as well; I'd imagine that'd be harder to hide from a metal detector than plastic -- and the gun isn't much good without bullets.

Correct. The article says that the plastic pistol was brought within yards of the Prime Minister by a correspondent from a show on Israel's News 10. It says that the Israel Security Agency (sometimes known in English as "Shin Bet") characterized this act as irresponsible. It says that the weapon was tested by firing at a cardboard target.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#27

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 4:26 AM UTC

refurb wrote: post #21

The thing I don't get is how a plastic gun suddenly becomes a problem if it's 3D printed. You can construct (a very crude) gun barrel for .22LR out of 3/4" plastic bar using nothing more than a 1/4" drill bit. You need a mechanism to fire the round, but since you just need to crush the primer, it doesn't have to be anything fancy. Of course you have no rifling and a poor seal so the bullet tumbles and isn't effective…

Because headline saying "threat that was known 50 years ago exists today and despite nothing new happened we still decided to write an article about it as if it was something new" wouldn't attract as many readers.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#28

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 4:29 AM UTC

chrischen wrote: post #23

refurb wrote: post #21

The thing I don't get is how a plastic gun suddenly becomes a problem if it's 3D printed. You can construct (a very crude) gun barrel for .22LR out of 3/4" plastic bar using nothing more than a 1/4" drill bit. You need a mechanism to fire the round, but since you just need to crush the primer, it doesn't have to be anything fancy. Of course you have no rifling and a poor seal so the bullet tumbles and isn't effective…

He may not do that, but he could go and buy a plastic gun for $10 from someone who does know how to use a 3D printer. Think about this: a curious kid could accidentally shoot himself now in many fewer steps than before. Download, load it into dad's printer, assemble. Though, I'm assuming these plastic guns still need real bullets.

"Curious kid" could also drink bleach or fall from a roof or bite into an electric cable or spill a boiling soup on his head. That's what parents are for. If the kid is smart enough to use dad's printer, he has the mental capacity to understand the dangers. If the parents didn't educate him it's their failure.

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#29

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 4:34 AM UTC

minopret wrote: post #26

aray wrote: post #6

Title doesn't (really) reflect that this was part of a test, and not that someone was found to have smuggled a 3D printed weapon in. Also, the article does not mention whether or not ammunition was smuggled as well; I'd imagine that'd be harder to hide from a metal detector than plastic -- and the gun isn't much good without bullets.

Correct. The article says that the plastic pistol was brought within yards of the Prime Minister by a correspondent from a show on Israel's News 10. It says that the Israel Security Agency (sometimes known in English as "Shin Bet") characterized this act as irresponsible. It says that the weapon was tested by firing at a cardboard target.

Curiously enough, they don't exactly say they hit the target - they say they fired "towards" the target (I've read the Hebrew original of course), but it doesn't mean they actually hit it. I imagine the accuracy of such device would be pretty bad...

Re: 3D Printed Gun Smuggled Into Israeli Parliament

#30

Post by smsm42 » Thu, Jul 04, 2013, 4:35 AM UTC

lemming wrote: post #3

3d printed guns are one of the few things I can think of that will make air travel even more inconvenient than it is now. This is going to be bad.

ITYM "people that are irrationally afraid of 3D-printed guns will make the air travel even more inconvenient than it is now". FTFY.