Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

soundcloud.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 196 posts

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#21

Post by tippytop »

hkmurakami wrote: post #4

I have some sympathy for the recruiters since they really have no say in the high level decision making in the organization. They may not even be involved with domestic spying of citizens. But on the other hand they continue to stay at the organization so while I do feel some sympathy for their predicament,I guess it's really just up to each person to figure out whether they're really okay with staying there, given a…

As things are, this is one of the few points of contact for public feedback with the NSA. They describe themselves as apolitical tools for the administration, well, that's a pretty big hammer to give a future unknown with no public oversight.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#22

Post by Gorpus »

Wow I bet this girl is real proud of herself. But why is she trying to have this debate with recruiters? How immature.

I hope NSA switches up their recruitment a little bit, make it easier for technically qualified people who aren't exactly choir boys to get a job there. I'd love to work for them.

Surveillance isn't going away, and I bet the technology side of it is fascinating, full of interesting problems.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#23

Post by DanBC »

c0ur7n3y wrote: post #6

I have to imagine their recruiting is going to suffer greatly due to the recent revelations. Very few smart people are going to want to join an organization that spies on their fellow citizens. Plus, the NSA is going to have to be even more skeptical of anyone they do recruit.

A lot of people just don't care. They want a job with other smart people and neat technology where they can do math in peace and quiet.

See also "You don't need to worry if you don't have anything to hide" etc.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#24

Post by md224 »

martin_k wrote: post #12
hkmurakami wrote: post #4

I have some sympathy for the recruiters since they really have no say in the high level decision making in the organization. They may not even be involved with domestic spying of citizens. But on the other hand they continue to stay at the organization so while I do feel some sympathy for their predicament,I guess it's really just up to each person to figure out whether they're really okay with staying there, given a…

I found this part particularly interesting: "Our business is apolitical, okay? We do not generate the intelligence requirements. They're levied on us. And so if there is a requirement for foreign intelligence concerning this issue or this region or whatever, then that is [...] what we are going after. That is the intelligence target we are going after because it is the requirement." I think as engineers, we have a ce…

Indeed. Engineers need to understand that the things they build may be "cool," but they have higher-order consequences beyond that. Just because we can build something doesn't mean we should. I mean really, didn't anyone learn anything from Jurassic Park? :P

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#25

Post by nugget »

As Federal employees, the men and women who work at the NSA swear an oath which dates back to 1884:

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."

Rather than instantly pass the buck about the scope, context and impact of their domestic surveillance work, perhaps the recruiters on this clip should re-read this oath and think about what it really means; what their responsibilities are to the citizens of the United States; and what kind of country they want their children and their children's children to live in.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#26

Post by DannyBee »

martin_k wrote: post #12
hkmurakami wrote: post #4

I have some sympathy for the recruiters since they really have no say in the high level decision making in the organization. They may not even be involved with domestic spying of citizens. But on the other hand they continue to stay at the organization so while I do feel some sympathy for their predicament,I guess it's really just up to each person to figure out whether they're really okay with staying there, given a…

I found this part particularly interesting: "Our business is apolitical, okay? We do not generate the intelligence requirements. They're levied on us. And so if there is a requirement for foreign intelligence concerning this issue or this region or whatever, then that is [...] what we are going after. That is the intelligence target we are going after because it is the requirement." I think as engineers, we have a ce…

I agree in general, but i disagree it's "quite a statement". People generally won't do jobs they believe morally or other conflict with their values. So they come up with ways (some may say "delude" themselves) to believe they don't, IE "Just following orders".

A good example are prosecutors and defense attorneys.

I've met many prosecutors who believe it's okay to put away people for many years even if they personally have doubts about their guilt.

I've met many defense attorneys who believe it's okay to get people acquitted, when they've confessed their guilt to the attorney.

This isn't because they are amoral people at their core, it's because they have a job, and want to be able to sleep at night while still doing that job, so they convince themselves.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#27

Post by DanBC »

fvrghl wrote: post #2

Why are they doing student recruiting right now? I imagine all sessions would go like this.

Sales of horse meat rose after food contamination scares in UK.

Also, we want ethical people working for them, because then there's more people to say "Is this legal?" when an order for intelligence comes in.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#29

Post by robbiemitchell »

DannyBee wrote: post #26
martin_k wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this part particularly interesting: "Our business is apolitical, okay? We do not generate the intelligence requirements. They're levied on us. And so if there is a requirement for foreign intelligence concerning this issue or this region or whatever, then that is [...] what we are going after. That is the intelligence target we are going after because it is the requirement." I think as engineers, we have a ce…

I agree in general, but i disagree it's "quite a statement". People generally won't do jobs they believe morally or other conflict with their values. So they come up with ways (some may say "delude" themselves) to believe they don't, IE "Just following orders". A good example are prosecutors and defense attorneys. I've met many prosecutors who believe it's okay to put away people for many years even if they personall…

Attorneys defend guilty people not simply because it's their job, but because they defend the right to due process and a fair trial. Everyone, even (privately) guilty people, is afforded these rights.

Re: Students Question the NSA at Recruiting Session [audio]

#30

Post by doktrin »

angersock wrote: post #16
martin_k wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found this part particularly interesting: "Our business is apolitical, okay? We do not generate the intelligence requirements. They're levied on us. And so if there is a requirement for foreign intelligence concerning this issue or this region or whatever, then that is [...] what we are going after. That is the intelligence target we are going after because it is the requirement." I think as engineers, we have a ce…

"Once the rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down? That's not my department", says Werner von Braun.

Nitpick : the above almost makes it look as if von Braun made that statement, which he didn't. It's from a satirical song by Tom Lehrer.
Post reply on HN