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Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

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Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#21
post #7

Because it is an attack on gender. Creepers and harassment are exceedingly rarely discussed in gender neutral ways- it is usually a man doing something to a woman, or sometimes a discussion of the reverse. It is not often both in a neutral way. Additionally, the behaviour are things that a lot of people still do. Whereas with racism, to use the author's example, might draw the same ire (and it does in certain cases)…

> As such, in every post you are condemning behaviour that around 50% of the population will have done at some point.

I agree with this exact sentiment. For example, hand holding is a thing commonly done among women friends in Japan. This sort of a thing in the US, however, would be viewed as 'creepy'.

However, most of the examples that the author points to, IMO, would not fall under creepy, but rather offensive. Offensive, however, has a 'higher burden of proof' so to speak whereas creepy is just a feeling. Therefore, creepy gets used much more and consequently it makes men feel more violated because there is no way to rebut it. E.g. "the way you said hi to me was really creepy." There is no response to that which an honest person can give: apologizing means that you were indeed creepy and arguing makes you look stupid.

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#22
post #7

Because it is an attack on gender. Creepers and harassment are exceedingly rarely discussed in gender neutral ways- it is usually a man doing something to a woman, or sometimes a discussion of the reverse. It is not often both in a neutral way. Additionally, the behaviour are things that a lot of people still do. Whereas with racism, to use the author's example, might draw the same ire (and it does in certain cases)…

A man doesn't even need to chase women to be stigmatized as "creepy". Merely being single and being in a place where someone doesn't want you to be, or doing something simple like opening a door or complimenting someone, is often stigmatized as "creepy" just because the recipient of the attention doesn't want it from the individual giving it.

This is not to excuse any cases of actual sexual harassment, just an observation

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#23

This entire essay is about how other people perceive a certain thing in a more extreme matter than would be warranted by logic, but the author makes the mistake of using the same extremities in his essay, thus nullifying his own argument. (Did that make sense? If not, it basically means: he is saying "there are a lot of nutters who are angrily responding to discussions about creepers and harrassment", but he doesn't…

It's not the language that makes people nutters. They might have downvoted you for discounting the entire article for something that doesn't matter.

Have you never seen the reactions the article is talking about?

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#24
post #7

Because it is an attack on gender. Creepers and harassment are exceedingly rarely discussed in gender neutral ways- it is usually a man doing something to a woman, or sometimes a discussion of the reverse. It is not often both in a neutral way. Additionally, the behaviour are things that a lot of people still do. Whereas with racism, to use the author's example, might draw the same ire (and it does in certain cases)…

You were doing so well until you made a sweeping generalisation about why men are different to women ("testosterone filled to constantly chase women"). The differences between men's and womens sexuality can be put down to a number of things: 1. Women being pressured to follow old ideals how they should behave. (i.e. fear of being a 'slut') 2. Women also feeling pressured to make themselves sexually available and attr…

I dont think it was meant as one specific behavior, but the collection of behaviors that one may classify as creepy.

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#25
Human nature is often shitty and here's the status ranking that tends to emerge, except in mature/stable monogamous couplings:

    High-status men > High-status women >>> Low-status women >>> Low-status men
Few people will put it that nakedly, but let's get it out there. I'm not defending this. I hate that it's that way. It's unfair to women (who have a ceiling placed above them) and unfair to low-status men (who are treated as garbage, criminals, effluent).

This rank-order exists because humans are not naturally monogamous. High-status men can have more reproductive yield than any woman (200+ children, easily) so there is more incentive to compete and, in pre-monogamous times, it was aggressive men who took the most risks and ended up on top (or dead). Low-status women outrank low-status men because they still have wombs (a scarce resource) while low-status men only have unwanted genetic material (and are a risk of upset to the high-status people).

Most "creepers" or "sketchy guys" are socially awkward, low-status men who get scapegoated for the horrible things done by a small minority of (high- and low-status) terrible men. Most are not guilty of anything other than being socially unwanted.

Society is so bad at finding and punishing the actual male criminals (who are still out there) that the hammer tends to fall on the socially awkward instead... because they're not quick enough to get out of the way when it's falling.

There's a perfect storm for flamewarring on these issues because both genders have a genuine injustice to get angry about. For women, it's the fact that most societies still are pretty horrible to them, that they are forced to compete in a career game that favors sociopathy (more commonly male), and that a small minority of very bad men still commits disgusting crimes (and sometimes gets away with them, especially when it's high-status men involved; see: Stuebensville). For men, it's the hypocritical nastiness (hypocritical because the most common offenders when it comes to, for example, rape are usually the entitled, arrogant high-status men) directed at low-status men. Note also that almost all men (probably 75%) will have low status at some point in their lives (especially risky times are the freshman year of college and the first 2-4 years in the work world).

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#26
post #2

> Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry? Because it is usually followed by demands and hate. "I am woman, you are sexist because you are a man, now gimme your money".

Really? Is there some army of women out there extorting money out of men somehow by accusing them of being creepy and I've somehow missed it? Because it seems like that would be big news.

Generally the only "demand" I ever see follow accusations of creepiness online is "please stop".

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#27
post #2

> Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry? Because it is usually followed by demands and hate. "I am woman, you are sexist because you are a man, now gimme your money".

A woman who just called you a creeper does not want your money in any case. A women complaining about sexism is typically not asking for a sugar daddy. Women do different things and have different views, it isn't the same woman doing all these things at once. Any more than it is all men doing all the stupid things any man has been known to do or say.

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#28
post #2

> Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry? Because it is usually followed by demands and hate. "I am woman, you are sexist because you are a man, now gimme your money".

No, that's what the people who don't understand what "privilege" is (and ironically react vitriolically to it as the headline questions) project onto others because that's all the more they're able to comprehend about this issue because "I've never seen it; must not happen", etc.

Sometimes people disagreeing have "privilege." And sometimes the people they are disagreeing with have just got it wrong. Regardless of the existence of sexism, nobody gets a free pass for all their claims or complaints just because of their gender. That would indeed be a "privilege."

Re: Why Does Talking About Creepers And Harassment Make People So Angry?

#29

"creepy" is just a code word for "unattractive" or "awkward" i've been called hot, sexy, and creepy in the same hour span on a night out. speaking up in the conversation at the wrong time, or just having the wrong look on your face can be "creepy". staring off into space while thinking about code? watch out, you could be creeping someone out. overhear something and decide to but in with a "hey i think i know what you…

"creepy" is just a code word for "unattractive" or "awkward"

In this context, it simply means being pushy and mumbling (or screaming) about sex and/or violence all the time. E.g. http://fatuglyorslutty.com/

i've been called hot, sexy, and creepy in the same hour span on a night out.

Yes, and people have called making a lot of money "killing it" before, too, but that doesn't suddenly make murder okay. How's that for a simple exercise in logic.

If a word being overused makes people unable to pay attention to the matter at hand, why do they insist on having an opinion anyway, not to mention being so vile about it? The question remains.

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