Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

rapgenius.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 58 posts

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#21

Post by hosh »

billyshih wrote: post #16

I did this 10 day retreat and it turned my life around for the better. I wasn't having any life shattering problems, but was just uncomfortable with my life, e.g. confused about career and whether I should stay with my girlfriend. I did not feel that it was cultish or strong-arm-y at all. Yes, they have rules, but most of them really do help with meditation or they are just cultural rules, which is fine. If I go to c…

I got a kick out of the Criticisms section. It looks like he's got a lot of stuff to work out but overall, a great experience.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#22

Post by hosh »

peregrine wrote: post #4

The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me. I've read this a couple times and I just want to go to this place, and meditate in a safe place. I don't really want to be preached to.

Those are more likely your own projections and hangups. It's ok though. For example, there is no "safe" place to meditate, though some places are more stimulating and dynamic than others.

There's enough literature out there that you can give vipassana a try on your own. It may be harder to be honest about yourself, but you don't have to meditate in a group or at a retreat.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#23

Post by hosh »

benjamincburns wrote: post #18
Alex3917 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The last section on cultish teachings seems like a deal breaker for me." I've done the same program at the same location, and it's really not cultish at all. Essentially you're not allowed to do anything that would distract you (or others) from meditating, and that's it. (E.g. you're not allowed to talk with others or eat junk food, as with most similar programs.) The teachings obviously come from a certain sect of…

> they come from the same set of experiences that you yourself will have if you stick with it I ask this very non-rhetorically - do you believe that this is a totally natural convergence of thought, or is it possible that this is the progression of thought that this particular set of guidance will lead you toward?

Natural convergence. You can reach many of the same places with say, the Trappist practice of contemplation. I've seen people who have similar experiences on entheogens, though the specific content might be wildly different.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#24

Post by hosh »

fusiongyro wrote: post #19
benjamincburns wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, quiet often I do need help sitting quietly - but that's a tangent I'd rather not get into right now. While meditation is incredibly simple, it is far, far more difficult than just sitting quietly. Meditation is observing and (hopefully gently) directing your mental focus. Try it sometime for 10-20 minutes. Sit down someplace quiet, close your eyes, and choose some very simple thought to focus on. Try to kee…

I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying nobody can really help you.

That belief that it is difficult or that you need help are themselves arising objects.

It is helpful to get help -- someone holding space for you can be very helpful -- but ultimately, this is between you and you.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#25

Post by hosh »

iball wrote: post #14
fusiongyro wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? You need help sitting quietly? What sort of guidance do you suppose someone could actually give you that would take any form other than telling you what to think? You don't need help to do this. You don't need a magic tree, or to be in India to do this. Just sit quietly and meditate. Quit putting obstacles in your way and just do it. Forget teachers, instructors, gurus, priests, yogis, etc and just d…

Meditation is hard. Having someone to listen to you and offer gentle encouragement from experience when you run into tough spots can be very helpful. As with everything, there's a balance to it, and falling into a dependent or worshipful relationship should be avoided

Eventually, you also learn how to give yourself encouragement. You learn that the universe itself is giving you encouragement. And you eventually learn that the need for encouragement is itself an arising object that passes in time.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#26

Post by benjamincburns »

Alex3917 wrote: post #20
benjamincburns wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they come from the same set of experiences that you yourself will have if you stick with it I ask this very non-rhetorically - do you believe that this is a totally natural convergence of thought, or is it possible that this is the progression of thought that this particular set of guidance will lead you toward?

"do you believe that this is a totally natural convergence of thought, or is it possible that this is the progression of thought that this particular set of guidance will lead you toward?" Happy to answer, but I'm not sure I understand the question -- could you rephrase?

Sorry, I should have quoted more.

> Yes, Goenka does make some counterintuitive claims about the underlying nature of the universe, but the basis for those claims are phenomenological experiences that people have had while meditating; they come from the same set of experiences that you yourself will have if you stick with it.

To rephrase the question - do you think that these experiences are convergent, in that anyone with enough discipline to meditate for long enough will have them, or do you think that these experiences are the result of Goenka's guidance?

To further the question, are you saying that the "counterintuitive claims" are something at which (again given enough practice/discipline) we all would arrive, or just that we would all share something similar to the experiences that they were born from?

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#27

Post by hosh »

benjamincburns wrote: post #17
fusiongyro wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you serious? You need help sitting quietly? What sort of guidance do you suppose someone could actually give you that would take any form other than telling you what to think? You don't need help to do this. You don't need a magic tree, or to be in India to do this. Just sit quietly and meditate. Quit putting obstacles in your way and just do it. Forget teachers, instructors, gurus, priests, yogis, etc and just d…

Actually, quiet often I do need help sitting quietly - but that's a tangent I'd rather not get into right now. While meditation is incredibly simple, it is far, far more difficult than just sitting quietly. Meditation is observing and (hopefully gently) directing your mental focus. Try it sometime for 10-20 minutes. Sit down someplace quiet, close your eyes, and choose some very simple thought to focus on. Try to kee…

To answer your question:

I have done it for 10-20 minutes. I have done it for 30 minutes. And 40. And 45. And 1 hour and half.

It is difficult every time. No one said this is easy.

Over time, I have learned to be able to observe the ... discomfort and "difficulty" as an arising object, and allow that to pass by.

I started from having extreme difficulty sitting for 1 minute.

As for "easier to accept" -- that is not acceptance. Acceptance is acceptance. There is no easy or hard about it. Thinking that something is "easier to accept" is a subtle form of aversion.

Finally, what you talk about with "focus" and "flow of focus" -- that is concentration, that is samadhi. Vipassana is insight, and while it uses a minimum level of concentration, you're not trying to hold a particular focus. You're observing the fundamental nature of reality.

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#28

Post by iball »

hosh wrote: post #25
iball wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meditation is hard. Having someone to listen to you and offer gentle encouragement from experience when you run into tough spots can be very helpful. As with everything, there's a balance to it, and falling into a dependent or worshipful relationship should be avoided

Eventually, you also learn how to give yourself encouragement. You learn that the universe itself is giving you encouragement. And you eventually learn that the need for encouragement is itself an arising object that passes in time.

And yet somehow even after learning all that, you still manage to get frustrated and have difficult experiences!

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#29

Post by bloodorange »

fusiongyro wrote: post #19
benjamincburns wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, quiet often I do need help sitting quietly - but that's a tangent I'd rather not get into right now. While meditation is incredibly simple, it is far, far more difficult than just sitting quietly. Meditation is observing and (hopefully gently) directing your mental focus. Try it sometime for 10-20 minutes. Sit down someplace quiet, close your eyes, and choose some very simple thought to focus on. Try to kee…

I'm not saying it's easy. I'm saying nobody can really help you.

After reading about meditation recently, I felt inspired and have been trying to meditate for 10 minutes every night before bed. I started this around a week ago.

In the last two days I have begun to wonder if I should find a good teacher. I find it _insanely_ hard to hold my focus for that ten minute period. However much I try, I often catch myself thinking about something else - without realising how I got onto that train of thought. I then try to steer my mind back.

The other thing I noticed is that I don't know if I made any progress at all over the last week. I don't know if I am trying the right things or whether just sticking to this will some day bring about an improvement.

This makes me feel that though no one can be _made_ to learn anything, a good teacher can definitely make one learn faster (and in some cases learn what one may otherwise be unable to figure out by oneself).

Re: Vipassana Trip Report by Rap Genius Founder

#30

Post by shiven »

As always, the HN crowd gravitates towards the negative (strong-arm-y, cultish etc.) instead of looking at the entire package and focusing on putative benefits. Just because you don't like the wrapper don't mean the candy ain't tasty (or nutritious or enjoyable)! Pffft! HN, get a grip. Hack your mind, don't give in before you even try! I know, skeptic is the new smart, but that shouldn't be an excuse to summarily discount an idea/concept/practice.
Post reply on HN