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The Obesity Era

aeonmagazine.com

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Re: The Obesity Era

#21

Post by mixmastamyk »

falcolas wrote: post #3

Interesting read; I've encountered many of the problems signaled out here. I'm overweight, and I've changed my life and my diet to try and fix it. When I took note of where I was, I was drinking between 4 and 8 mountain dews a day. I ate candy in prodigious amounts, and constantly ate until I was full. Since then, I altered my diet and eating habits to where I drink no pop, and rarely have any kind of sugary treat. I…

You might try the link above given in my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5915794

The new info about sugars and starches is that the starches have the same effect on our bodies, they just work a bit more slowly. What does that mean? Well, we knew in the 90's that starches could rot our teeth just like sugar. But today we also know that grains (wheat, corn, rice, potatoes, oats, other empty carbs) raise blood sugar and are only a bit slower than actual sugar. They are chains of sugar.

In other words, if you don't get rid of the bread, pasta, and crackers too, removing sugar will have only limited effects.

Re: The Obesity Era

#22

Post by mixmastamyk »

johnrob wrote: post #18
mixmastamyk wrote: post #13

Interesting. My anecdote comes from a slightly different angle. I've always been in very good shape, lots of weightlifting and cardio my whole life, and been a very healthy eater. But, the "spare-tire" was always there, even with muscles bulging underneath. Just for kicks I decided to try Steve Gibson's recommendation to remove sugar and starch from the diet. ( https://www.grc.com/health/lowcarb.htm ) No knee-jerk he…

Bread now builds waistlines only because we eat too much of it. I would be surprised if a normal sized person gained weight eating mostly carbs but staying below 1500 calories per day.

You're right on some level. But given that sugar and starch are packed into all processed food, I think it makes that level of calories difficult to sustain for most people. Note that the blood-sugar-rollercoaster that cheap carbs give makes you ravenous at the trough. An additional factor in why we eat too much of it.

Meanwhile after an example lunch of fish, veggies, and olive oil I feel full and satisfied almost all day (with the same range of calories).

Re: The Obesity Era

#23

Post by glenra »

boneheadmed wrote: post #14
eightpersimmons wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't address what I think was one of the most interesting points in the article - weight gain is present even in lab animals with strictly monitored diets. The implication being, of course, that this isn't the whole story, and we are doing ourselves a disservice by chalking up everything to diet. (I don't mean to say you are wrong about this fact by any means - I'm not any kind of expert, and you sound very c…

I did read that point and find it perplexing. I would like to see hard data about that. For instance is the general diet for laboratory rats now the same as it was 50 years ago? But also, if you have a look at my abstract, it does point to another potential cause of obesity and type 2 diabetes in humans (but naturally not the lab animals) - food addiction. The patients in this study were also successful (presumably)…

> I did read that point and find it perplexing.

The "fat virus" theory would perfectly explain it. If some of our co-evolved viruses and bacteria have been making us more prone to accumulate fat and it's contagious, the lab animals caught it too. So their metabolism slows down to allow them to accumulate weight on the same diet that used to be merely sufficient for sustenance.

On a personal note: I also lost 30 pounds over 6 months once. I did it by simply counting calories (hacker's diet). And I kept the weight off for about a year. But then I gained it all back and then some within the next few years. Most people can lose weight on most diets in the short term; the real trick is losing a significant amount of weight and keeping it off in the long term. Although some people manage to do it, it's not many. How to reliably lose weight and keep it off is still basically an unsolved problem.

Re: The Obesity Era

#24

Post by falcolas »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #21
falcolas wrote: post #3

Interesting read; I've encountered many of the problems signaled out here. I'm overweight, and I've changed my life and my diet to try and fix it. When I took note of where I was, I was drinking between 4 and 8 mountain dews a day. I ate candy in prodigious amounts, and constantly ate until I was full. Since then, I altered my diet and eating habits to where I drink no pop, and rarely have any kind of sugary treat. I…

You might try the link above given in my other comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5915794 The new info about sugars and starches is that the starches have the same effect on our bodies, they just work a bit more slowly. What does that mean? Well, we knew in the 90's that starches could rot our teeth just like sugar. But today we also know that grains (wheat, corn, rice, potatoes, oats, other empty carbs) r…

Yes, I've done Keto to various degrees (including Atkins), and had no success. Yet another fad diet with scientific backing that has no effect.

Re: The Obesity Era

#25

Post by nwhitehead »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #17
eightpersimmons wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't address what I think was one of the most interesting points in the article - weight gain is present even in lab animals with strictly monitored diets. The implication being, of course, that this isn't the whole story, and we are doing ourselves a disservice by chalking up everything to diet. (I don't mean to say you are wrong about this fact by any means - I'm not any kind of expert, and you sound very c…

I was thinking about that myself and came up with the idea that perhaps their diet is changing. I wouldn't be surprised if laboratory food was centralized around corporations just like human food. Meaning, I bet cheaper ingredients (more wheat/corn) have made their way into it over time. I can't imagine such peripheral industries not being affected.

This is an interesting hypothesis. It wouldn't even have to be changing percentages of ingredients, it could simply be the result of increased agricultural efficiency and yields. 100 calories worth of corn feed is quite likely to be subtly different in composition today than decades ago.

Re: The Obesity Era

#26

Post by svdad »

glenra wrote: post #23
boneheadmed wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did read that point and find it perplexing. I would like to see hard data about that. For instance is the general diet for laboratory rats now the same as it was 50 years ago? But also, if you have a look at my abstract, it does point to another potential cause of obesity and type 2 diabetes in humans (but naturally not the lab animals) - food addiction. The patients in this study were also successful (presumably)…

> I did read that point and find it perplexing. The "fat virus" theory would perfectly explain it. If some of our co-evolved viruses and bacteria have been making us more prone to accumulate fat and it's contagious , the lab animals caught it too. So their metabolism slows down to allow them to accumulate weight on the same diet that used to be merely sufficient for sustenance. On a personal note: I also lost 30 poun…

No, it isn't. Unless you're saying you gained weight again while still eating the same diet, you solved the problem, you just failed at implementing the solution.

Re: The Obesity Era

#27

Post by gummify »

I saw on the news today that 70% of the US is a size 14 or larger now. Shocking. In addition to the need for sugar and starch reduction, a lot of grocery foods are not as natural as we think they are. Having lived in European and Asian countries I can say that the people there are less calorie conscious and sometimes eat more than Americans do but their food options and ingredients seem more wholesome and less processed than in North America. Is it worthwhile to investigate who controls the health standards in manufacturing of food?

Re: The Obesity Era

#28

Post by smtddr »

mixmastamyk wrote: post #13

Interesting. My anecdote comes from a slightly different angle. I've always been in very good shape, lots of weightlifting and cardio my whole life, and been a very healthy eater. But, the "spare-tire" was always there, even with muscles bulging underneath. Just for kicks I decided to try Steve Gibson's recommendation to remove sugar and starch from the diet. ( https://www.grc.com/health/lowcarb.htm ) No knee-jerk he…

Same here, I went on a diet(ultimately became a lifestyle change) trying all kinds of things... but in the end... I lost nearly 40lbs by simply eliminating bread & sugar. Blogged about it, but be warned - my workout routine is based on Nintendo's Wii Fit Plus. Don't laugh, it worked for me! - http://blog.sanriotown.com/minusworld:hellokitty.com/2011/06...

Re: The Obesity Era

#29

Post by jacques_chester »

The preponderance of evidence is that net caloric balance predicts weight.

http://examine.com/faq/what-should-i-eat-for-weight-loss.htm...

Given the choice between "astonishing phenomenon never before detected in history" and "record-keeping errors", I know which horse Occam is telling me to bet on. And it's not that HFCS has more Higgs bosons.

Re: The Obesity Era

#30

Post by jacques_chester »

falcolas wrote: post #3

Interesting read; I've encountered many of the problems signaled out here. I'm overweight, and I've changed my life and my diet to try and fix it. When I took note of where I was, I was drinking between 4 and 8 mountain dews a day. I ate candy in prodigious amounts, and constantly ate until I was full. Since then, I altered my diet and eating habits to where I drink no pop, and rarely have any kind of sugary treat. I…

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199212313272701
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