Live data from Hacker News

Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

blog.torproject.org

21–30 of 54 posts

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#21
post #5

Whether or not FB is deliberately blocking Tor now , how out-of-line would it be for them to eventually block it in the future? It doesn't seem in their best interest as a company to allow Tor connections...but other than that, what ethical obligations do they have to allow anonymous connections? FB already has a policy more-or-less mandating real identities...so for them, this is kind of a non-issue, right? By using…

> I guess the tl:dr of my question is: if you must conduct sensitive work, why do it on Facebook, a network that is committed to sharing things in public?

If you are an activist you probably want the information shared with the public. You just might not be as keen for your identity to be shared with the people who find your activism inconvenient.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#22

Recent evolution of a story on Hacker News: An incorrect story is posted, and quickly rises up the homepage. Hacker News commenters wave their torches and pitchforks. Somewhere between a couple hours and a couple days later, a correction is posted. The correction never attracts the same amount of attention, and multiple people inevitably post comments saying something to the effect of 'just because this time proved t…

The worst part of that life cycle is being one of a minority group trying to explain what's really going on. I had the top comment on 3 different NSA stories at one time, correcting misinformation in each. I still don't think it helped.

The demographic of the site really feels like it has shifted in the years I've been here (this is my second account -- the first one was around for even another couple of years before).

In the past, I would say that most people on the site were successful doers, either working on startups or in tech. The focus was almost exclusively tech, with very little politics. But over the last few years it really feels like the tone has shifted in the anti-business, especially anti-big-business, direction. There are also a lot more commenters who seem to feel disenfranchized in the current system. And there are a lot of folks who seem to have a pretty pessimistic outlook and are ready to believe and upvote stories that confirm it. Not sure if these things are related or if it's just different groups of folks who have happened to become attracted to the site around the same time.

That doesn't mean the site is going down the tube, but it definitely has a different character than back in the old days.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#23
post #5

Whether or not FB is deliberately blocking Tor now , how out-of-line would it be for them to eventually block it in the future? It doesn't seem in their best interest as a company to allow Tor connections...but other than that, what ethical obligations do they have to allow anonymous connections? FB already has a policy more-or-less mandating real identities...so for them, this is kind of a non-issue, right? By using…

I don't think it would be out of line at all. I got downvoted to hell for expressing similar opinions before but I think this is a perfectly reasonable opinion.

Facebook is in the business of social networking, not activism.

The number of users using Tor compared to the general population is bound to be so low that they either shouldn't care enough to bother blocking it or if they did for some reason, really wouldn't put a dent in their daily actives.

Activists very well could be screwed, but that's really not Facebook's concern. Their no pseudonym policy makes perfect sense. Whether or not you like it or would use services that enforce it is an entirely separate issue. I feel like I don't have to explain this but I will anyway. Using a real name helps them help you find people you know (or at least whose name you know). That's the whole point. To start implementing policies conducive to anonymity defeats the entire purpose of Facebook.

I understand why Facebook is such a great tool for activists and dissidents and why a social network built especially for those people would not be ideal. That said, at the end of the day Facebook has no obligation to support such people. The fact that it's such a great tool for activists is just a side effect of the app's main purpose and use by the general population. I'd even go so far as to say that if they blocked Tor purposely in the future no one would really have any right to be outraged. I mean, you can certainly and understandably be outraged, but you really can't say Facebook has wronged you as being a tool for activists isn't really their mission. Complaining that Facebook wants to collect info to show you ads is like complaining that the coffee shop requires that you give them money to be served. Tracking is the way you pay to use Facebook and I doubt they'd ever implement paid accounts to get rid of the tracking and ads.

I'm sure there are some who work at Facebook who feel a moral obligation to support those activities but at the end of the day its a business and it isn't a business founded upon principles that fall in line with those of activists. If Mozilla created a social network, maybe then we could say the company has a moral obligation to encourage anonymity where people wanted but that kind of philosophy is just not in Facebook's DNA.

     if you must conduct sensitive work, why do it on Facebook, a network that is committed to sharing things in public?
Because of exactly that. It's public and the general population uses it for an entirely different reason. If you're doing sensitive work and need to get the message out then Facebook is a great tool for the job so long as you can remain anonymous. I know that's totally contradictory sounding but it's reasonably possible. Currently you can use Tor and other measures (assuming this issue is resolved) like using a fake name (which is technically a pseudonym but what I really mean is a name meant to look like a real person but isn't). Everyone uses it, you can let the world know important info, and though you can be rooted out, it makes it more difficult as you're a needle in a haystack. Compare this to a tool built specifically for activist communication - it's basically a big honeypot for unfriendly governments. They know that every user is a political dissident and now they really don't have to narrow down their search. They can just start hacking and tracking every user on the site.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#24
post #19

Recent evolution of a story on Hacker News: An incorrect story is posted, and quickly rises up the homepage. Hacker News commenters wave their torches and pitchforks. Somewhere between a couple hours and a couple days later, a correction is posted. The correction never attracts the same amount of attention, and multiple people inevitably post comments saying something to the effect of 'just because this time proved t…

Well, this story is higher than the old one for me. Do people get different views of the front page?

It's higher because of recency. It has fewer points.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#26

Recent evolution of a story on Hacker News: An incorrect story is posted, and quickly rises up the homepage. Hacker News commenters wave their torches and pitchforks. Somewhere between a couple hours and a couple days later, a correction is posted. The correction never attracts the same amount of attention, and multiple people inevitably post comments saying something to the effect of 'just because this time proved t…

"An incorrect story is posted"

As far as I see there wasn't anything actually incorrect about the story. At worst it was implied that it was a deliberate move and the rest seems correct including that tor users are actually blocked. Maybe if people understood critical thinking as actually thinking instead of being critical this wouldn't be a problem to begin with.

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#27

Recent evolution of a story on Hacker News: An incorrect story is posted, and quickly rises up the homepage. Hacker News commenters wave their torches and pitchforks. Somewhere between a couple hours and a couple days later, a correction is posted. The correction never attracts the same amount of attention, and multiple people inevitably post comments saying something to the effect of 'just because this time proved t…

Reminds me of when Tech Crunch ran with a story - based on unconfirmed anecdotal evidence - that private messages were showing up as public on user's Timelines. Within hours they updated the story to say they could not actually find evidence it was true.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4565969

One of my favorite HN comments from that thread: "If I could short FB I would do so immediately. The fallout from this is going to be immense and long-term."

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#28
post #15

Recent evolution of a story on Hacker News: An incorrect story is posted, and quickly rises up the homepage. Hacker News commenters wave their torches and pitchforks. Somewhere between a couple hours and a couple days later, a correction is posted. The correction never attracts the same amount of attention, and multiple people inevitably post comments saying something to the effect of 'just because this time proved t…

i.e. The Sean Parker wedding fiasco.

Wow, I hadn't heard about that. 9 points.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5834359

Re: Facebook Is Not Blocking Tor Deliberately

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worst part of that life cycle is being one of a minority group trying to explain what's really going on. I had the top comment on 3 different NSA stories at one time, correcting misinformation in each. I still don't think it helped.

The demographic of the site really feels like it has shifted in the years I've been here (this is my second account -- the first one was around for even another couple of years before). In the past, I would say that most people on the site were successful doers, either working on startups or in tech. The focus was almost exclusively tech, with very little politics. But over the last few years it really feels like the…

HN always contained a healthy dosage of politics, anti-big-companies rants and gossip. I distinctively remember a really popular link at one point showing a picture of Steve Jobs on a meeting with Eric Schmidt over coffee and people were considering it some kind of historic event and also commented on Steve's choice for shoes, not to mention all the stupid speculation about what this meeting was about. It made me sick.

What really happened is that some noise threshold was reached, while the website's implementation hasn't changed much and so links about engineering, programming, startups, weekend projects and so on have a much harder time reaching the front-page and managing to stay there for a couple of hours.

HN is still the best place on the web if you crave for rants. I swear, if you want confirmation bias or to read funny and informative rants of smart and educated people, you can hardly beat HN.

Post reply on HN