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More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor

reuters.com

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Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor

#21

Post by nitrogen »

AsymetricCom wrote: post #2

Surprise: press has large effect on what people think was actually leaked. I'm sure 99% of those interviewed have no idea what he actually leaked entailed. I'd be more interested in a study that asked people if they knew what they were actually outraged about. A majority of the insinuations of the original "leak" have since been retracted and those actually following the details of the story have no belief that there…

Did you not read the Verizon order? The order that very clearly demands a daily dump of all metadata (source/destination phone numbers, date/time, etc.) for all customers, even those calls wholly within the US?

Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor

#22

Post by nutate »

I can think of a word that rhymes with patriot for this guy.

That said it was great to hear the congress and the heads of the departments agreeing that the entire process deserves review. There was zero animosity, etc at the finance committee meeting today. Very cool to see when the government is working, a dialog is happening, etc.

But this guy is the ultimate sophomore, and if you ask me he was turned by China or just by some dreams of entering into some 31337 hax0r club illuminati.

All for leaking a powerpoint detailing what was codified in law over the past decade.

Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor

#23

Post by humanspecies »

nutate wrote: post #22

I can think of a word that rhymes with patriot for this guy. That said it was great to hear the congress and the heads of the departments agreeing that the entire process deserves review. There was zero animosity, etc at the finance committee meeting today. Very cool to see when the government is working, a dialog is happening, etc. But this guy is the ultimate sophomore, and if you ask me he was turned by China or j…

Looks like he's not the only one with an adjective that rhymes with patriot.

Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor

#24

Post by stevewillows »

discostrings wrote: post #16
stevewillows wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. However, how can a group that owns coercion set the rules for their own agencies?

The short answer is law. But even with a good system, it seems very difficult to maintain. In the U.S., the idea was that its founding legal document, the Constitution, would put some very strict limits on the power of government. Thus, there would be many things the government could never do, like restrict one's freedom of speech or unreasonably search and seize a person's belongings or effects. A process was includ…

In essence we the people need to be Big Brother keeping an eye on the government while they spy on their siblings.

Ultimately the US needs a sustainable system where the people elected to power aren't bound by financial need which in-turn forces them to pass and enforce laws that aren't good for the greater purpose of the people. But while we're at it, I'd like a pony.

I'm in Canada, and we are in the same cycle of 'interpretation'. As with any major country we need to get back to the foundations and simplicity of our core laws that both protect the innocent and judge fairly on the guilty or suspicious.

In respect to transparency, we need a set of global laws that protect the users of systems based in foreign countries. If Canada had strict privacy laws, I would hope that I would be protected by those laws even if I'm using a service based in the US.

Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor

#25

Post by einhverfr »

nitrogen wrote: post #21
AsymetricCom wrote: post #2

Surprise: press has large effect on what people think was actually leaked. I'm sure 99% of those interviewed have no idea what he actually leaked entailed. I'd be more interested in a study that asked people if they knew what they were actually outraged about. A majority of the insinuations of the original "leak" have since been retracted and those actually following the details of the story have no belief that there…

Did you not read the Verizon order? The order that very clearly demands a daily dump of all metadata (source/destination phone numbers, date/time, etc.) for all customers, even those calls wholly within the US?

Additionally it isn;t clear to me if cell site location data generated in order to be able to enable a call would fall under it. If it does, then the order turns our cell phones into Knotts-type tracking beepers.

Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor

#26

Post by res0nat0r »

discostrings wrote: post #5
AsymetricCom wrote: post #2

Surprise: press has large effect on what people think was actually leaked. I'm sure 99% of those interviewed have no idea what he actually leaked entailed. I'd be more interested in a study that asked people if they knew what they were actually outraged about. A majority of the insinuations of the original "leak" have since been retracted and those actually following the details of the story have no belief that there…

> I'd be more interested in a study that asked people if they knew what they were actually outraged about. To list a few reasons people are outraged: -Surveillance has been revealed that seems to far exceed what is authorized by the Patriot Act -The executive branch refuses to release the legal rationale on which it justifies the surveillance -Senior officials have lied to Congress about the scope of surveillance -Co…

Here is a summary of the Guardian story and what has been changed: http://www.zdnet.com/the-real-story-in-the-nsa-scandal-is-th...

"Updated June 10 to include a quote from a follow-up article in the Post directly contradicting its initial claims and another observation after the release of the leaker's identity."

Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor

#27

Post by malandrew »

dllthomas wrote: post #18
AsymetricCom wrote: post #2

Surprise: press has large effect on what people think was actually leaked. I'm sure 99% of those interviewed have no idea what he actually leaked entailed. I'd be more interested in a study that asked people if they knew what they were actually outraged about. A majority of the insinuations of the original "leak" have since been retracted and those actually following the details of the story have no belief that there…

"should the government know less than Google[?]" It's an interesting framing but I don't think a correct one. To the question itself, in some areas the government should absolutely know less than other groups/individuals. My wife should know a lot more about me than the government does, and she does very little data mining. To the framing, though, just as there's a tremendous difference between "follow that car" and…

Google mainly knows the things it tells it. Government should be the same. I tell the government about my taxes. They should know that because I gave them that information. I didn't give them my search information, so they should not have that without a court-approved search warrant. If they want my search history without one, they should ask me directly for it and I should have the right to deny them that information.

Re: More Americans see man who leaked NSA secrets as 'patriot' than traitor

#29

Post by einhverfr »

cinquemb wrote: post #20
cygnus wrote: post #14

traitor XOR patriot. This is so narrow minded in my opinion. Snowden has done something good to the world, because US administration is secrectly messing with everybody around the globe. Stop considering it happened only within US borders or as an internal matter. US and US media still are using a group (country) scale reduction to draw some bad opinion on Snowden, divide and gain some people to this spying dementia.…

> If you look on an international scale… I keep thinking about how in some Asian and Middle Eastern countries, the same things have been going on (if not more overt), and I wonder if their citizens have as much apathy as ours?

My experience is that everyone everywhere these days loves their country and distrusts their government. The question, as always, is how individuals and groups of people navigate the government and vice versa. The specific limits vary from one place to another but the attitudes seem remarkably stable over time too.

For example in medieval Iceland, one of the major protections against unreasonable search and seizure was a combination of limiting the number of people who could be involved in searching for a stolen item for example, and also mandating all the places where the MUST search. So you could only have so many bondir searching for a stolen item and they couldn't selectively search farms. Instead they were required to search all farms between two suspects. this made very indiscriminent searching impractical.

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