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Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

reuters.com

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Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#21

Post by JMCQ87 »

DasIch wrote: post #11
woah wrote: post #2

Not surprising. With the Gestapo, and then the Stasi, the Germans have an extensive cultural memory of the effects of comprehensive government surveillance of their lives. They are still surprisingly tolerant of the long term military occupation of their country by the US. It would have been interesting if Snowden had holed up in Germany instead of HK. I wonder if the inevitable US military extradition would have tes…

The US and UK military are usually stationed in somewhat small cities and are a very important part of the economy in these areas. Most people don't care about the fact that they are still here in Germany and those that do care are happy about the income they provide. Everytime they leave somewhere it's usually a source of great concern and not at all something to celebrate.

Die Linke probably disagrees.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#22

Post by stonemetal »

1morepassword wrote: post #7
hga wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia, as of 2010 the US military has 52,440 people in Germany, and as of 2013 the German military had 188,921 active personnel and as of 2010 144,000 in their reserves. That falls a bit short of "occupation" in my book. There has in fact been at least one technothriller based on the US military fighting its way out of Germany, based of course on the Anabasis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_(…

How would you call it there were almost half a million fully armed German troops stationed in the US? A great success for US board of tourism?

I think you mean half a hundred thousand. It really depends, are they going to movies and buying local beer or are they shooting at people? What is currently happening in Germany is the first not the second.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#23

Post by morsch »

danbruc wrote: post #9

The headline sounds like an official government statement but then this guy is no one I ever heard of and the only quote I could find does not even mention the word Stasi. American surveillance (literally: compulsive checking) goes definitely to far if it interferes that much with the privacy of internet users. Something like this is unthinkable here. I thought we had overcome this era with the downfall of the DDR. I…

Well, he is a member of the European Parliament, so there's that. Most MEPs aren't very widely know, though, even compared to members of the national assemblies. They also have the luxury of being in a sort of permanent opposition against national governments and the more powerful parts of the EU government.

I agree that the story is overblown, although the concern about the whole thing in Germany and all of Europe is obviously very real and hopefully will turn into a greater concern over what our own governments are doing. I hope a lot of conservatives are caught finger pointing in the next few days, if nothing else just to see them squirm when they're supposed to wave through the next set of laws curtailing internet freedom.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#24

Post by graup »

return0 wrote: post #4

this is a great movie about surveilance in the east germany. I don't know how accurate though. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/

That movie is usually regarded as being one of the more accurate ones. E.g. Joachim Gauck (Germany's current president and former head of the Stasi Archives) said that save some inaccuracies many things are presented very well. [1]

Definitely worth watching!

[1] http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Das_Leben_der_Anderen#Deutsche_...

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#25

Post by v0lta »

danbruc wrote: post #18
wahsd wrote: post #17

Stasi.? Germans are simply shying away from comparing it to the Nazis' unimaginable wet dream because of a very self-conscious sensitivity about the matter. But don't fool yourselves, ignoring other unrelated, horrible outcomes that were a consequence of the times, this level of surveillance is by far worse than anything that has ever existed in all of human history. It is tantamount to mind reading, and without a do…

When it comes to surveillance the Stasi did a way better job than any NS organisation.

Through sheer manpower however. Because of this, it wasn't a secret that everyone has been watched. That doesn't make it better, but gives it an own taste compared to PRISM.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#26

Post by bejar37 »

Honestly, I'm starting to feel like the lack of comments from European leaders about the infringement of non-American's data might be because they know they might be the next to get caught with their hands in the honey pot. I can't tell if I'm just starting to be part of the tin-foil hat crowd though.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#27

Post by darkarmani »

1morepassword wrote: post #7
hga wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to Wikipedia, as of 2010 the US military has 52,440 people in Germany, and as of 2013 the German military had 188,921 active personnel and as of 2010 144,000 in their reserves. That falls a bit short of "occupation" in my book. There has in fact been at least one technothriller based on the US military fighting its way out of Germany, based of course on the Anabasis ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anabasis_(…

How would you call it there were almost half a million fully armed German troops stationed in the US? A great success for US board of tourism?

Hessians?

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#28

Post by _ak »

woah wrote: post #2

Not surprising. With the Gestapo, and then the Stasi, the Germans have an extensive cultural memory of the effects of comprehensive government surveillance of their lives. They are still surprisingly tolerant of the long term military occupation of their country by the US. It would have been interesting if Snowden had holed up in Germany instead of HK. I wonder if the inevitable US military extradition would have tes…

> They are still surprisingly tolerant of the long term military occupation of their country by the US.

It's not exactly occupation anymore. Plus the US brought in the big money through the Marshall plan, starting a big economic boom. Even nowadays companies can get cheap loans from KfW bank that is essentially Marshall plan money.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#29

Post by danielweber »

uh_oh wrote: post #3

Thumbs up for this coming from the conservative party as well. As others have said, this really is a bi-partisan issue and we should build as broad a coalition of the unwilling as possible.

It's entirely typical for conservatives to dislike other countries' intelligence and military capabilities, for pretty obvious reasons.

Re: Germans accuse U.S. of Stasi tactics before Obama visit

#30

Post by onli »

Cass wrote: post #16
woah wrote: post #2

Not surprising. With the Gestapo, and then the Stasi, the Germans have an extensive cultural memory of the effects of comprehensive government surveillance of their lives. They are still surprisingly tolerant of the long term military occupation of their country by the US. It would have been interesting if Snowden had holed up in Germany instead of HK. I wonder if the inevitable US military extradition would have tes…

There's nothing surprising about the German tolerance of the US military bases, considering that they do nothing whatsoever to interfere with our lives or inconvenience us in any way, but do provide quite a lot of jobs. These are mostly medical or training facilities, many of them operated jointly by American and German forces, not some occupying force that's intent on overrunning our government or controlling the ci…

Isn't the US already (slowly) withdrawing/reducing the stationed troops?

Besides, germany wouldn't really have a chance. The few nuclear rockets we control would probably not be ready in time. The USA could just bomb germany down, like it was planned in case of a war with the UDSSR.

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