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My Son Won't Do His Homework (2007)

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Re: My Son Won't Do His Homework (2007)

#21

Post by tptacek »

olympus wrote: post #18

There's a story from Gene Woolsey that I had to read my senior year in college (I was an Ops Research major, and Gene Woolsey is a pretty big deal in that field). The story went something like this: A group of students had just finished a big research project and were told to present a one page executive summary that outlined their work, results, and conclusions. They couldn't quite get it to fit on one page, so thei…

Here's another comment on this thread that I disagreed with but found sensible, until the very end, where it recommends that adults hit children to make them do things.

Re: My Son Won't Do His Homework (2007)

#22

Post by guylhem »

The core problem in the blog post is the (perceived) arbitrary judgement of the value of the work.

Let's suppose the parent evaluation is right, which is not self evident given how the emotional attachments impairs judgement.

The article says the work was poorly graded because the paper was not of the "right size".

We can suppose that the grader either a) didn't have the time to properly grade b) had to follow strict and pointless rules even if they were evidently stupid c) had a poor judgement.

The c case is the biggest problem - when an evaluation fonction returns wrong results. b and a could be special cases of c (not having a schedule or following stupid rules could be having a poor judgement)

Now let's think for a minute than N% of the graders are giving results that are no better than random assessment of the pupils.

Given how, in a schoolchildren life, a number of educators will be met, N% of the results will be meaningless (apply statistics, SD, etc.)

Now think of those randomly declared having "good grades" become graders (teachers) themselves.

I wonder how the equilibrium works out in a society - at which value of N will society turn education from acquiring knowledge to jumping through hoods and having a certificate in witchcraft (replace witchcraft by anything you think is wrong and pointless)

[Even worse- think, if for example the school district is poor and recruts graders of a lesser quality, that this raises to (N+X)%]

Re: My Son Won't Do His Homework (2007)

#23

Post by jacalata »

So, if we take the author at his word, then either the teacher had an unwritten rule for the size of the paper, or the student and the author both somehow managed to not read or to forget this rule. If it's a, then rules lawyer the hell out of the idiot teacher. If it's b, then looks like both of them are bad at details and instructions, which is a skill that certainly deserves some attention. So why was that the end of the story?

Re: My Son Won't Do His Homework (2007)

#24

Post by guylhem »

olympus wrote: post #18

There's a story from Gene Woolsey that I had to read my senior year in college (I was an Ops Research major, and Gene Woolsey is a pretty big deal in that field). The story went something like this: A group of students had just finished a big research project and were told to present a one page executive summary that outlined their work, results, and conclusions. They couldn't quite get it to fit on one page, so thei…

What I read from your example : this head of the company wilfully destroys parts of the information paid for by the company, then complains about it.

If it is to be a learning experience, this will produce obedient slaves and avoid any creativity. Not a good thing in this day and age.

If it is to be a real world experience, the head is engaging in sabotage, and should be removed by the board.

"In most things it is easier to ask permission than it is to ask forgiveness."

I'm really not sure about that. Besides that, I agree with your conclusion.

Regarding corporeal punishment, I find it odd how the western world believes the practice should be stopped while it did produce result (like kids doing their homework).

Whatever, european and american kids won't get spanked, won't get better grades, will suck at life - bad thing for them, good thing for the other kids :-)

Wait, it's unfair for the european and american kids. We should give them away a liberal art degree (but only if they spend enough time and $ at a place where they are supposed to acquire an education)

Re: My Son Won't Do His Homework (2007)

#25

Post by protomyth »

I have no understanding of why schools are allowed to assign homework in the first place. The kid is at school 7 hours and then most schools try to assign a couple of hours of homework on top of that. I seem to remember a work / life balance thread about working over 40 hours a week is bad. So, why is it ok for our children?

Re: My Son Won't Do His Homework (2007)

#27

Post by olympus »

tptacek wrote: post #21
olympus wrote: post #18

There's a story from Gene Woolsey that I had to read my senior year in college (I was an Ops Research major, and Gene Woolsey is a pretty big deal in that field). The story went something like this: A group of students had just finished a big research project and were told to present a one page executive summary that outlined their work, results, and conclusions. They couldn't quite get it to fit on one page, so thei…

Here's another comment on this thread that I disagreed with but found sensible, until the very end, where it recommends that adults hit children to make them do things.

tptacek, I'm sure you have a compelling viewpoint both as someone who has to manage an entire company and as someone who is older and wiser than I am (I'm not sure if you have kids of your own). Would you care to expand on why you don't think spanking is an acceptable form of discipline?

To clarify, I only recommend open palm spanking. Not switches/lashes/paddles/belts. It doesn't bruise, only stings for a few seconds, and in my opinion is actually more humane than sticking your kid in solitary confinement. I don't see it as a problem as long as it is administered in moderation (like most things).

Re: My Son Won't Do His Homework (2007)

#28

Post by wtallis »

brg wrote: post #3

After hiring committee one day, we digressed into a discussion of the value of a high GPA from university. One of my colleagues made the point that the value of an individual with a high GPA from a four year degree is that you know the person will get done what needs to get done. To have a high GPA, a student needs to finish term papers on subjects they have no interest in, they need to study for exams in language fo…

Do you really want to hire somebody whose most notable talent is their ability to bullshit their superiors and tell them what they want to hear?

Re: My Son Won't Do His Homework (2007)

#29

Post by jcampbell1 »

“My teacher didn’t like the project, because I put it on the wrong size paper.”

Either you are bullshitting, or you better learn what size paper to do your homework on. Winning is easier than being right, and winning is much more fun.

I don't have a teenage kid, but there I think there are two thing that are important.

1) Acquiring new knowledge should be self-rewarding. 2) Winning is fun.

This parent seems to have a kid that hasn't experienced the joy of the #2. He seems to actively prevent his kid from winning because he thinks winning is wrong. This is a common theme where parents constrain their children to do no better than themselves.

Children of immigrants tend to be incredibly successful because their parents have no such inhibitions.

Re: My Son Won't Do His Homework (2007)

#30

Post by wheaties »

brg wrote: post #3

After hiring committee one day, we digressed into a discussion of the value of a high GPA from university. One of my colleagues made the point that the value of an individual with a high GPA from a four year degree is that you know the person will get done what needs to get done. To have a high GPA, a student needs to finish term papers on subjects they have no interest in, they need to study for exams in language fo…

While I don't completely agree the logic is sound. There are just too many inconsistent hurdles during adolescence to overcome and still come out ahead. That said, how do you weigh the merits of program choices? I ask because there are degrees which are of lesser difficulty depending on the school. How do you differentiate between a chemistry degree and an anthropology degree (not implying either is harder, mind you.)
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