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Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

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Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#21

Post by enraged_camel »

androidb wrote: post #17
enraged_camel wrote: post #5

I'm Turkish. Let me try to shed some light on what's going on. What started as a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall on it turned into full-blown riots after some stunning displays of brutality by the police. The commentators are saying that the Turks had lots of pent-up anger over the years and this allowed them to let it all out. The result is the largest series of riots Turkey has se…

This is a side question, but we're going very soon on a 2 week holiday in Kemer, is there any real danger for tourists? Not that I don't agree with what you're doing, but I'm traveling with a 3 year old and there's not enough information on this from news media.

I found this on the website of the American embassy in Ankara, Turkey.

http://turkey.usembassy.gov/sm_053113.html

Couple of things. First, Kemer is pretty far away from the main cities that have the protests. Second, it's a tourist spot, so things should be fairly calm there.

Good luck, I hope you enjoy your visit!

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#22

Post by [deleted] »

mtgx wrote: post #12
enraged_camel wrote: post #5

I'm Turkish. Let me try to shed some light on what's going on. What started as a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall on it turned into full-blown riots after some stunning displays of brutality by the police. The commentators are saying that the Turks had lots of pent-up anger over the years and this allowed them to let it all out. The result is the largest series of riots Turkey has se…

Let me get this straight - you think military influence on a government is what can preserve democracy? Because you think that in the case of a government that is heavily military based, that military part of the government would be for people? You're free to believe that, I suppose, but you'd be ignoring most of the world's history. Revolutions happen when normal people rise up against the government, no the militar…

[deleted]

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#23

Post by sheri »

mtgx wrote: post #12
enraged_camel wrote: post #5

I'm Turkish. Let me try to shed some light on what's going on. What started as a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall on it turned into full-blown riots after some stunning displays of brutality by the police. The commentators are saying that the Turks had lots of pent-up anger over the years and this allowed them to let it all out. The result is the largest series of riots Turkey has se…

Let me get this straight - you think military influence on a government is what can preserve democracy? Because you think that in the case of a government that is heavily military based, that military part of the government would be for people? You're free to believe that, I suppose, but you'd be ignoring most of the world's history. Revolutions happen when normal people rise up against the government, no the militar…

Do you have any context about the Turkish republic's history? I would suggest you read up a bit before condemning his views. The people view the Military as preserving the secular ideals of the country. The military is held in a very positive light, and is generally considered non-corrupt and honest. The governments on the other hand have been anything but. The current government has been curtailing military power, and at the same time severely limiting freedom of press. It also has been pushing an Islamic agenda, slowly and surely moving the country away from its secular roots. Turkish secularists are seeing this as a move away from democracy, rather than towards. People are being jailed for having any kind of anti-government views. For example, recently someone was jailed for re-tweeting a tweet which criticized the current administration. So yes, people do view the military as a savior for democracy.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#25

Post by nakkaya »

[deleted] wrote: post #18
enraged_camel wrote: post #5

I'm Turkish. Let me try to shed some light on what's going on. What started as a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall on it turned into full-blown riots after some stunning displays of brutality by the police. The commentators are saying that the Turks had lots of pent-up anger over the years and this allowed them to let it all out. The result is the largest series of riots Turkey has se…

[deleted]

> the police reaction isn't more violent than say the crack down on the Occupy protests

Really, so in the US people got beaten up up by the police [1], thrown tear gas from police choppers, multiple people ran over by police armoured personnel carriers and died, unarmed civilians got hit in the head with tear gas canisters and died [2]. Secretary of health (who is supposed to be a medical doctor) refused to send ambulances to the injured because they were protesting against the government. What the hell are you smoking?

Both links NSFW, [1] https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=519364864791286 [2] https://gs1.wac.edgecastcdn.net/8019B6/data.tumblr.com/10a8a...

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#26

Post by guelo »

[deleted] wrote: post #18
enraged_camel wrote: post #5

I'm Turkish. Let me try to shed some light on what's going on. What started as a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall on it turned into full-blown riots after some stunning displays of brutality by the police. The commentators are saying that the Turks had lots of pent-up anger over the years and this allowed them to let it all out. The result is the largest series of riots Turkey has se…

[deleted]

To be fair, democracy is mostly bullshit nowadays since the rise of the modern propaganda money state.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#27

Post by cinquemb »

sheri wrote: post #23
mtgx wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me get this straight - you think military influence on a government is what can preserve democracy? Because you think that in the case of a government that is heavily military based, that military part of the government would be for people? You're free to believe that, I suppose, but you'd be ignoring most of the world's history. Revolutions happen when normal people rise up against the government, no the militar…

Do you have any context about the Turkish republic's history? I would suggest you read up a bit before condemning his views. The people view the Military as preserving the secular ideals of the country. The military is held in a very positive light, and is generally considered non-corrupt and honest. The governments on the other hand have been anything but. The current government has been curtailing military power, a…

From reading what people have been saying it seems like the military steps in when the it feels the government over steps the will of the people (secular ideals of the country). However, since this has to happen from time to time, it isn't really taking an active role in persevering democracy per se and mostly leaving it up to ordinary people through political processes (until they step in).

From what has happend so far pertaining to this situation, it seems like that is true: https://twitter.com/rmncr/status/340525959784562688 (translation via google: "Information: Gumussuyu Military Hospital citizen soldiers dealing mask. Thanks! #direngeziparkı #occupygezi")

I wonder what it would be like in the US if National Guard medics were to show up and pass out aid to people during OWS and related protests…

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#28

Post by nakkaya »

zalew wrote: post #8
enraged_camel wrote: post #5

I'm Turkish. Let me try to shed some light on what's going on. What started as a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall on it turned into full-blown riots after some stunning displays of brutality by the police. The commentators are saying that the Turks had lots of pent-up anger over the years and this allowed them to let it all out. The result is the largest series of riots Turkey has se…

> a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall isn't it just a tip of the iceberg of what's recently going on in Istanbul? resettlements, demolishions of old architecture to replace with commerce, etc. I remember a local complaining about it when I've been there 2 years ago, since then I've heard more and more about how they are destroying neighborhoods. shame, it's an amazing city.

Park protest was just the tipping point. Current government has been slowly transitioning the country into Islamic rule. There were numerous things that preceded this, ban on abortion, ban on alcohol, jailing journalists/MPs, forcing religion on children, restrictions on TV basically all TV stations are owned by the government ( and not a single one mentioned the protests last night btw or the bombing that recently happened imagine no one reporting 9/11), and not to mention every recent protest met the same police brutality.

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#29

Post by rwmj »

atasever wrote: post #6

Media is censoring the events. Only information channel is twitter. Right now , on the bosphorus bridge that connects asia and europe: https://twitter.com/tunaarman1/status/340667624432205825

The BBC is covering it pretty well.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-22739423

Re: Thousands of Istanbul citizens walking to protest government

#30

Post by TheSmoke »

enraged_camel wrote: post #5

I'm Turkish. Let me try to shed some light on what's going on. What started as a small protest to prevent the demolishing of a park to build a mall on it turned into full-blown riots after some stunning displays of brutality by the police. The commentators are saying that the Turks had lots of pent-up anger over the years and this allowed them to let it all out. The result is the largest series of riots Turkey has se…

Military in Turkey was a tool of the Kemalist regime and vice versa. Erdogan did change that. You call it gutting the military and I call it the right thing to do and to tell the truth I am happy with the result. Let's just keep the military in a place where they belong and have them out when they are needed. I don't need the military to protect the regime, I need it to protect me and my land.

The incidents are nothing different than what the police were doing to Kurdish protesters or Muslim protesters (whom you probably call Islamists) protesting the turban ban across the universities and govt offices and the Kemalist regime's actions against Islam for the sake of secularism for almost 100 years. Erdogan himself knows this better than anyone else. He was thrown into prison just because he read a poem by the Kemalist regime, its laws and its bureaucracy.

Simply put some residents in Istanbul did not want the authorities to destroy Gezi Park and build a mall instead. They were harmless and friendly. Police went brutal and the protests turned into resistance. Police and authorities acted in a more fascist way. They ignored people's right to protest and the anger increased and spread across the country. In my opinion, Erdogan himself should come up, apologize and hold the police and other authorities responsible for their actions and make them answer in front of the law. This is fascism, this is authoritarianism and we do not want it. We've had enough of it.

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