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Vim hall of honour

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Re: Vim hall of honour

#21

Post by cabacon »

throwaway1980 wrote: post #18
cabacon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look into producer and consumer surplus. In any exchange, you'll tend to find that the value of the items exchanged are worth more to the receiving party than the giving party. It's practically essential to agreeing to a trade. The consumer surplus is the excess value the buyer receives. Think "I would have paid €5 for that drink right now, but they only charged me €2!" The producer surplus is how much more someone p…

So you're saying that this person was implying that even though the price is 0 euro, the consumer surplus is greater than 100 euro? I can understand this reasoning, so thanks for explaining it. I'm not sure I believe that consumer surplus can be measured outside of controlled psychology experiments, since it's only speculation and talk is cheap. I guess I always thought that the value (or worth - these are the same,…

I think the efficiency of markets is based around marginal costs and benefits, not absolute costs and benefits. The cost of goods are set by looking at the intersection of the people willing and able to supply the good, and the set of people willing to pay for the good. See, for example, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand

But the point is that you've found an equilibrium in the system with the current price, current suppliers, and current customers. There are customers would would have happily paid more. There are people who WOULD have bought the good if it cost less, but it doesn't so they didn't. There are people who are happily supplying it and making mad bank. There are people who are supplying it and making a razor-thin margin. There are people who WOULD supply it if the available price were higher, so they're not supplying it right now. The price is an efficient equilibrium point, but it's not the global arbiter of value.

Re: Vim hall of honour

#22

Post by lucb1e »

danielbarla wrote: post #14
tsahyt wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling.. though point. I was never good at making up prices. Buying it for a 100 euros? Yes, in a heartbeat. It's the single most important tool I use.

It would have to have fairly long trial period however...

Or it should come with a free three-month personal course

Re: Vim hall of honour

#23

Post by tomsthumb »

throwaway1980 wrote: post #15
frabcus wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The original wording was carefully chosen - things can cost less than they are worth.

Not if we are talking about monetary worth, which is what 100 euro denotes. Unless I am severely mistaken in my understanding of economics.

It feels like this throws a wrench in my understanding of loss leader strategies if your position is assumed....

Re: Vim hall of honour

#24

Post by lucb1e »

davvid wrote: post #20
kayoone wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

id suspect VIM would have a very hard time if it was coming out now and nobody knew about it, even for free. That doesnt mean its not awesome, but VIM is all about its legacy, huge ecosystem and hype.

VIM is all about its legacy, huge ecosystem and hype I don't agree with the "hype" part. Where's the hype? I use vim because it gets the job done.

> I use vim because it gets the job done.

And because it's available everywhere I guess. Without such wide availability (that's what "hype" probably refers to), I don't think it would have been so popular.

Re: Vim hall of honour

#25

Post by JanezStupar »

tsahyt wrote: post #12
spullara wrote: post #9

Let's say VIM didn't exist right now. Could you imagine selling it for 100 euro?

Selling.. though point. I was never good at making up prices. Buying it for a 100 euros? Yes, in a heartbeat. It's the single most important tool I use.

To expand. I wouldn't pay even 10 euro for an editor that does not support VIM.

Re: Vim hall of honour

#26

Post by siddboots »

davvid wrote: post #20
kayoone wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

id suspect VIM would have a very hard time if it was coming out now and nobody knew about it, even for free. That doesnt mean its not awesome, but VIM is all about its legacy, huge ecosystem and hype.

VIM is all about its legacy, huge ecosystem and hype I don't agree with the "hype" part. Where's the hype? I use vim because it gets the job done.

I also use vim because it gets the job done, but I completely agree with parent: Vims present day success is due in part to it having a massive culture of advocacy. It's hard to attract new users without hype.

Re: Vim hall of honour

#27

Post by kayoone »

davvid wrote: post #20
kayoone wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

id suspect VIM would have a very hard time if it was coming out now and nobody knew about it, even for free. That doesnt mean its not awesome, but VIM is all about its legacy, huge ecosystem and hype.

VIM is all about its legacy, huge ecosystem and hype I don't agree with the "hype" part. Where's the hype? I use vim because it gets the job done.

VIM clearly is the most hyped editor nowadays by the hardcore tech circle and imo that plays a big role in its popularity. It has a few runner ups like emacs and Sublime etc, and before it textmate was the tool to use. Of course VIM has been popular for a long time, but only in recent years i see all these high quality resources to learning VIM cropping up and its alot more visible than it was a few years ago.

Re: Vim hall of honour

#29

Post by olalonde »

throwaway1980 wrote: post #18
cabacon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look into producer and consumer surplus. In any exchange, you'll tend to find that the value of the items exchanged are worth more to the receiving party than the giving party. It's practically essential to agreeing to a trade. The consumer surplus is the excess value the buyer receives. Think "I would have paid €5 for that drink right now, but they only charged me €2!" The producer surplus is how much more someone p…

So you're saying that this person was implying that even though the price is 0 euro, the consumer surplus is greater than 100 euro? I can understand this reasoning, so thanks for explaining it. I'm not sure I believe that consumer surplus can be measured outside of controlled psychology experiments, since it's only speculation and talk is cheap. I guess I always thought that the value (or worth - these are the same,…

First, value is relative. To my grand mother, Vim has no value. Second, it is true that the price in an efficient market tends to approach the value most consumers will get out of the product (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supply_and_demand). That being said, the value a consumer assigns to a product is always superior to the actual price he is paying, otherwise, why would he bother with the transaction at all? Hence the consumer surplus.

To come back to the original topic at hand, I believe many Vim users value Vim at well over 100 euros. Worth usually refers to value rather than price and this why I believe some people down voted you although you were technically right that Vim's price is 0. Water is not worthless although it is free, etc.

I'm not an economist but that's how I understand it.

Re: Vim hall of honour

#30

Post by SwellJoe »

I'm just gonna take this as a reminder that I'm probably due to drop a few more dollars in the bucket. I've contributed $250 over the 15 years I've been using vim, which puts me comfortably in the hall of honour...but that's still not a lot of money for what is, arguably, the most important piece of software I use. $16.67 per year...that's a bargain.

When I worked in C, I used vim.

When I wrote shell scripts, I used vim.

When I worked in Python, I used vim.

When I came back to using Perl after many years away from it, I used vim.

When I kept notes at conferences, I used vim.

When I wrote my first book, I used vim.

When I built my first (second, third, and dozenth) website, I used vim.

I can think of very few pieces of software that have stuck with me consistently through all those years. Linux, Apache, BIND, bash, the gnu core tools (grep, sed, etc.)...that's pretty much it. Nearly everything else has changed, sometimes several times.

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