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Saurik releases Substrate for Android

cydiasubstrate.com

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Re: Saurik releases Substrate for Android

#21

Post by jawngee »

bangsta wrote: post #18
anonyfuss wrote: post #15

No. No no no no no no. There's nothing wrong with hacks. There's nothing wrong with runtime patching. If you know what you're doing, then you know why you shouldn't do it, and thus you're well equipped to do it anyway. There IS something wrong with bundling up hacks and runtime patches into a simple user-friendly installer that leads users to believe that they will work and are safe. When the hacks fail (and they wil…

Ah Saurik, the most interesting man in the world. I dont make software, I just break yours.

Yes, exactly. He hasn't even written an app with 4 million active weekly users. The gall of that guy!

Oh wait, I forgot about Cydia.

Re: Saurik releases Substrate for Android

#22

Post by bangsta »

jawngee wrote: post #21
bangsta wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah Saurik, the most interesting man in the world. I dont make software, I just break yours.

Yes, exactly. He hasn't even written an app with 4 million active weekly users. The gall of that guy! Oh wait, I forgot about Cydia.

a monkey can cross compile linux for bsd

Re: Saurik releases Substrate for Android

#23

Post by hayksaakian »

Upon further reading, I noticed the true purpose of this seemingly allows apps to extend outside their sandbox and violate the intent model in terms of how they interact.

Not sure why this is a GOOD idea though...

----- original:

As someone with a rooted galaxy nexus on cm10.1, why is this of interest to me?

I understood that cydia was an app store alternative that only could exist on rooted/jailbroken iOS. Android has no such restrictions about app stores; what value does this actually add?

This is based on reading every word of the linked to page...

Re: Saurik releases Substrate for Android

#24

Post by yareally »

StavrosK wrote: post #9
apendleton wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not answering your question, but applications for Android are generally written with the assumption that they have whatever permissions they requested at install time, and may behave unpredictably if calls to things that are supposed to have already been authorized raise exceptions. I would expect that if you managed to do this, lots of applications would crash.

I'm pretty sure you could fake most permissions convincingly. After all, how is an app to know that that empty contact list or those GPS coordinates on the top of mount Everest aren't actually real?

There's been a few mods out on xda for at least a year or two that let you fake most permissions per app so the app would think it was getting legit data and not just blindly crash if it was denied the data totally. I think one was built into MIUI and could also be used standalone. The other one I can't recall the name, but if I think of it I will edit my post in a bit. Both had their source out though so you could mod them.

Cyanogenmod 7 tried to totally deny permissions for apps and it was not a good idea. It resulted in apps crashing a lot. Also the reason they didn't continue to do it in Cyanogenmod 9 and 10. Faking permissions is definitely the way to go though.

edit: pdroid was the other (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1357056)

Re: Saurik releases Substrate for Android

#25

Post by thefreeman »

wvenable wrote: post #20
anonyfuss wrote: post #15

No. No no no no no no. There's nothing wrong with hacks. There's nothing wrong with runtime patching. If you know what you're doing, then you know why you shouldn't do it, and thus you're well equipped to do it anyway. There IS something wrong with bundling up hacks and runtime patches into a simple user-friendly installer that leads users to believe that they will work and are safe. When the hacks fail (and they wil…

Your app doesn't work on my jailbroken iPhone I'm not going to leave a poor review but I will still think it reflects poorly on your software.

He's not just referring to a jailbroken phone. From what I gather, the main purpose of Substrate is to allow apps to monkey patch functionality in other apps. I can see how this could be frustrating if users report issues that are actually caused by another app "hacking" the reported app.

Re: Saurik releases Substrate for Android

#26

Post by britta »

hayksaakian wrote: post #23

Upon further reading, I noticed the true purpose of this seemingly allows apps to extend outside their sandbox and violate the intent model in terms of how they interact. Not sure why this is a GOOD idea though... ----- original: As someone with a rooted galaxy nexus on cm10.1, why is this of interest to me? I understood that cydia was an app store alternative that only could exist on rooted/jailbroken iOS. Android h…

For an example of what Substrate can do, saurik also released Winterboard for Android today (https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.saurik.win...):

> WinterBoard is a "theme engine" that allows you to use the numerous themes you may find in the Google Play Store on your device without having to install custom ROMs or use custom launchers. It allows you to use almost any launcher icon theme with your stock launcher and supports "Theme Chooser" themes without CyanogenMod.

Winterboard is for customizing graphics with more flexibility; it's not messing with how apps work.

You could also imagine people developing a collection of Substrate extensions that each implement a specific launcher customization, so that you can build up your desired set of customizations one-by-one instead of trying to choose between several launchers that each have parts of what you want.

Re: Saurik releases Substrate for Android

#27

Post by wvenable »

thefreeman wrote: post #25
wvenable wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your app doesn't work on my jailbroken iPhone I'm not going to leave a poor review but I will still think it reflects poorly on your software.

He's not just referring to a jailbroken phone. From what I gather, the main purpose of Substrate is to allow apps to monkey patch functionality in other apps. I can see how this could be frustrating if users report issues that are actually caused by another app "hacking" the reported app.

The primary purpose of jailbreaking your phone is to run tweaks that use MobileSubstrate. I think Saurik himself has said Cydia only contains a handful of "apps" everything else is a tweak.

Unless the author has written an app badly in need of a tweak specifically targeting it, I doubt it's being patched directly.

Re: Saurik releases Substrate for Android

#28

Post by 616c »

yareally wrote: post #24
StavrosK wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure you could fake most permissions convincingly. After all, how is an app to know that that empty contact list or those GPS coordinates on the top of mount Everest aren't actually real?

There's been a few mods out on xda for at least a year or two that let you fake most permissions per app so the app would think it was getting legit data and not just blindly crash if it was denied the data totally. I think one was built into MIUI and could also be used standalone. The other one I can't recall the name, but if I think of it I will edit my post in a bit. Both had their source out though so you could m…

Pdroid is fantastic. I waste time patching my ROM every time I need to upgrade with that tool. The amount of information you can disable or manipulate to hand to app providers is amazing.

I think Android would have much better cred in the geek community if this was standard, but the legal and business hoops it jumps around and out of make it a pipe dream. I will say when I meet Infosec guys in my area and show them that app, even the iPhone guys are impressed and want to know how to get it if they got Android phones.

Re: Saurik releases Substrate for Android

#29

Post by StavrosK »

yareally wrote: post #24
StavrosK wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pretty sure you could fake most permissions convincingly. After all, how is an app to know that that empty contact list or those GPS coordinates on the top of mount Everest aren't actually real?

There's been a few mods out on xda for at least a year or two that let you fake most permissions per app so the app would think it was getting legit data and not just blindly crash if it was denied the data totally. I think one was built into MIUI and could also be used standalone. The other one I can't recall the name, but if I think of it I will edit my post in a bit. Both had their source out though so you could m…

Yeah, my problem is that I use stock, so no love there :/

Re: Saurik releases Substrate for Android

#30

Post by StavrosK »

616c wrote: post #28
yareally wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's been a few mods out on xda for at least a year or two that let you fake most permissions per app so the app would think it was getting legit data and not just blindly crash if it was denied the data totally. I think one was built into MIUI and could also be used standalone. The other one I can't recall the name, but if I think of it I will edit my post in a bit. Both had their source out though so you could m…

Pdroid is fantastic. I waste time patching my ROM every time I need to upgrade with that tool. The amount of information you can disable or manipulate to hand to app providers is amazing. I think Android would have much better cred in the geek community if this was standard, but the legal and business hoops it jumps around and out of make it a pipe dream. I will say when I meet Infosec guys in my area and show them t…

What legal and business hoops are you talking about? I can't see any legal problem with Android letting me disable my own permissions...
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