21–30 of 68 posts
Historically hasn't this always been the case? I thought it wasn't until recently when college became a at least remotely affordable option.
It's been quite the opposite. College tuition fees has risen rapidly (as most other things have) but the middle and lower class wages haven't been keeping up with this trend. The middle class today is working more for same amount of money they made a decade ago.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It seems we play plenty of taxes if the opening quote to the article can be believed: "Neat fact: If the federal government were to take all of the money it pours into various forms of financial aid each year, it could go ahead and make tuition free, or close to it, for every student at every public college in the country."
If the government were to make the current cost of attendance available to students, colleges would just double their prices (unless you implemented gasp price controls).
When people vote to not raise taxes to fund these schools, what do they expect is going to happen to subsidized tuition? We saw this happen a few years ago in Washington after voters voted against raising taxes to fund schools, and schools started accepting more foreign students and fewer local students to make their budgets. People were upset about this, for some reason. If the school gives four students $5,000 scho…
It seems we play plenty of taxes if the opening quote to the article can be believed: "Neat fact: If the federal government were to take all of the money it pours into various forms of financial aid each year, it could go ahead and make tuition free, or close to it, for every student at every public college in the country."
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd like to test your assumptions here. You claim : "the current system is broken" You submit as evidence to that claim : "there are tons of kids right now graduating without a sliver of hope for a job." If I ran this claim backwards (which is to say reverse its assertions) then a "working" education system would produce "most of the kids employable" ? I wonder why that defines "fixed" (or broken for that matter). I…
This is a difficult issue for a lot of reasons, hence my restating the context. I'd venture that no matter what else an education provides, if it does not enable a graduate to repay their loan, it is non-sustainable. (Whether you want to use "good" or "bad" here is up to you) Even the phrase "public education" is broad and fuzzy. With a tremendous amount of student loans publicly-financed, with public financing also…
I don't mean to restate the obvious, or pander to the crowd on HN, but every time we read one of these articles it needs to be stated that the current system is broken even when it is paid for . That is, for all the ink spilled over who can afford what and how much money is spent where, there are tons of kids right now graduating without a sliver of hope for a job. Worse yet, the system has been blowing smoke up thei…
I'd like to test your assumptions here. You claim : "the current system is broken" You submit as evidence to that claim : "there are tons of kids right now graduating without a sliver of hope for a job." If I ran this claim backwards (which is to say reverse its assertions) then a "working" education system would produce "most of the kids employable" ? I wonder why that defines "fixed" (or broken for that matter). I…
At least I think so. And that's because, at least for me, exploring my interests while worrying about my employability later, worrying about grades and every failure is pure hell, enough so to make me lose any interest I had at the beginning.
Education, in the form it takes now, is for the most part killing any joy of learning. I don't really think that this is possible to fix as long as we rely on money this much. So my conclusion is this: make the education as painless as it needs to be to make it relevant for earning money (more relevant and in a good sense), but don't prolong it far into the twenties. Let it end as quick as it's possible and let the people earn enough to pursuit their interests by themselves later.
What I realized is that for the institution, my tuition money is all the money they were going to get. From the rich families they could expect donations throughout the year. I had a friend who paid very little to go to school there, but it was also clear to us that without his Dad financing the tennis team, we probably wouldn't have had any of the amenities that we were treated to. There's always that give and pull.
Another point to bring up is that financial aid can be up to the individual in charge of your application. When I worked at the schools technology center fixing faculty computers, one time I happened to fix the head of financial aid's computer and when she came to pick it up she asked to thank me personally and told me that, "If you need anything from the financial aid office, even just a little bit more, you come tell me and I will make sure to take care of you." I didn't know this lady until then, but I was sure glad to have fixed her comp...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's too easy to blame people who vote against raising taxes. The rate at which college tuition has gone up since I went ('95-'99) is insane. This is not including that you could graduate from college from my era and find a decent job. I don't know why the tuition fees have risen so rapidly over a short period of time but it's certainly not helping out middle class families.
What increased most was the sticker price - net price has experienced a much slower increase rate: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2012/05/22/153316565/the-pric...
I don't mean to restate the obvious, or pander to the crowd on HN, but every time we read one of these articles it needs to be stated that the current system is broken even when it is paid for . That is, for all the ink spilled over who can afford what and how much money is spent where, there are tons of kids right now graduating without a sliver of hope for a job. Worse yet, the system has been blowing smoke up thei…
>feel entitled to a job Should we really insult people's character for wanting to work? Entitlement is a connotatively charged word that implies privilege, laziness, and an unreasonable desire to enjoy the fruits of other people's labor while sitting around. I can at least understand the use of the word "entitled" when leveled against welfare, progressive taxation, refusal to do entry-level work, etc. But how is it w…
(I don't know if that's what the OP intended, I'm just clarifying in a way that makes more sense to me.)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'd like to test your assumptions here. You claim : "the current system is broken" You submit as evidence to that claim : "there are tons of kids right now graduating without a sliver of hope for a job." If I ran this claim backwards (which is to say reverse its assertions) then a "working" education system would produce "most of the kids employable" ? I wonder why that defines "fixed" (or broken for that matter). I…
This is a difficult issue for a lot of reasons, hence my restating the context. I'd venture that no matter what else an education provides, if it does not enable a graduate to repay their loan, it is non-sustainable. (Whether you want to use "good" or "bad" here is up to you) Even the phrase "public education" is broad and fuzzy. With a tremendous amount of student loans publicly-financed, with public financing also…
"I'd venture that no matter what else an education provides, if it does not enable a graduate to repay their loan, it is non-sustainable. (Whether you want to use "good" or "bad" here is up to you)"
Your reasoning here doesn't make any sense to me, are you claiming that if a student takes out loans in order to pay for an education in basket weaving. Then fails to earn enough money by applying their acquired expertise in basket weaving to repay that loan. That they educational institution was at fault here?
There are many colleges which will train you in skills that will pay off the entire cost it takes to attend them in under 5 years. In California alone there are 23 campuses of the California State University system, with a median four year tuition of $25,000 for state residents which will train you in a STEM degree which is less than you would pay for a new car. There are community colleges which will do an Associates degree for even less.
But you are absolutely right there is a problem here, it just isn't with the colleges (although there may be grounds for accusing them of collusion).
Come at this from a different angle, how would you like to be able to conscript hundreds, thousands, maybe even a million people into a program where some fraction of everything they earn goes right into your pocket? Sell them a government guaranteed loan that they can't afford to pay back. It was a great scam in the Mortgage business for a while, the banks made billions on it, the tax payers took it in the shorts when the bottom fell out. And why did the bottom fall out? Because those damn suckers could declare bankruptcy and get out of paying the loan! Can you imagine. Well the banks have fixed that loop hole, you can't declare bankruptcy and get out of a student loan, no way no how, you're mine for life.
And guess what, the same people who were fleecing stupid people with bad mortgages are now fleecing people with student loans. In some cases literally, like when I heard from the same Wells Fargo loan officer who used to do mortgages and now wanted to talk to me about getting loans for my college age kids.
Its a problem *for schools" if they are over priced since they need students to survive. Guess what, if they can't justify their costs they go out of business or they get more efficient. As long as there are people willing to provide the same degree for less money, the system will continue to work and anyone who wants to be a doctor, or an engineer, or a lawyer, or a geologist or whatever can get their degree.
I implore you not to let the red herring story of 'students drowning in debt' convince you that college is broken, its not, student lending is broken and students are not be properly informed with respect to what "a degree" means versus what an "employable degree" means. Once we educate them and they start spreading out to the more affordable schools the private schools will have to fight harder for the top talent and will do so with scholarships so that their 'total cost' is the same as if they went to a state school but got their 'marquee' name.
Make students more discerning shoppers and the "problems" you decry go away.