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North Korea's silent football matches

bbc.co.uk

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Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#21

Post by Zirro »

rikacomet wrote: post #9
nodata wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe North Koreans have every _right_ to live as they want Do you realise that this article is highlighting the point that they _don't_ have this right?

and who exactly adjudged that, that they don't have this right? You? Me? Media? After having seen, what is the policy with foreign journalist? Do you say that any media report is 100% free of bias?

"and who exactly adjudged that, that they don't have this right?"

Those who manage to escape the concentration camps and leave the country.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#22

Post by bluedevil2k »

rikacomet wrote: post #15
bluedevil2k wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An adult's understanding of how people behave, and a parent's desire to give their children a better life...not a 21 year old's ignorant view of the world.

And of all things, you had to go to my profile, and adjudge me ignorant, based on my age. Well, I don't mind that. Some people are built that way to find illogical reasons to deny someone's opinion. People here, of all the people, know better that wisdom is not based on age. It is rare at young age, but not impossible.

You're confusing "intelligence" and "wisdom". Wisdom is, without a doubt, based on age. It's something that can only be obtained through years and years of experience dealing with people, places, and situations in the world. While you may have more intelligence than an 80 year old Korean War vet, I don't think anyone would believe you have more wisdom.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#23

Post by alinajaf »

rikacomet wrote: post #20
cs648 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think nodata is saying that the North Korean government has taken that right away from them.

And I think, I said it clearly, that what is the proof of, that right being taken away is something NK's want to fight for? even if what nodata said is true, that it is indeed being taken away. The reporting of our own media? which are not being allowed into NK, or if they are, are they being allowed the time, freedom to scrutinize? And if someone would think, that because they are disallowing media, they have someth…

If only 10% of one of the accounts of the concentration camp escapees is true, then NK is in the same cluster as Syria and Congo in terms of treatment of its people.

Its reasonable to assume that the right to not have your malnourished six year old daughter beaten to death for stealing a few corn kernels is one that homo sapiens everywhere find worth fighting for.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#24

Post by alinajaf »

bluedevil2k wrote: post #14
rikacomet wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and you believe that every last North Korean would go to South Korea, supposedly if that is true, you base this belief on?

An adult's understanding of how people behave, and a parent's desire to give their children a better life...not a 21 year old's ignorant view of the world.

For a minute there I thought you were talking about Kim Jong-un, but it turns out he's 28.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#25

Post by ctdonath »

rikacomet wrote: post #2

As long as they don't nuke anyone, I believe North Koreans have every right to live as they want, no matter how strange/hilarious/unmeaning/suppressed their lifestyle may seem to us. EDIT: Explanation- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5694012

The whole point is that they DON'T get to live anywhere close to how they want. The slightest dissent or disobedience is met with vicious punishment or death. They can't leave, even if they want to. Ongoing starvation is normal. They act odd at the football game because they never go to football games and have no idea how to act; most there likely were told "attend or die". If they "like" this it's because they at not allowed to know any options.

You know that recent news story of three women rescued from 10 years brutal captivity? North Korea is that on a national scale.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#26

Post by cturner »

rikacomet wrote: post #19
cturner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first comment wasn't so good. But here you pose a great thought experiment. To run with your point for a moment - it is possible to consider the idea of a caste system. Most hacker news readers would be disgusted at it, but you could imagine it being run humanely, and the people there would be content to live as they are. Here's my rule zero of political freedom: do you live in fear of a knock on the door in the…

Yes, you have a very good point regarding caste system. About first post being, not that good, well I got that feeling (haha) No shit! well, there is a need for scrutiny, as to why there haven't been a popular revolt, against the government, if people are that oppressed, as we are being lead to believe.

Regarding the caste thing, had some more thoughts. Django Unchained plays with this. At first, you don't know where Stephen fits in. Is he a slave who "knows his place"? But he's so disrespectful! Gradually you learn that he has carved out a special role for himself at the expense of others.

There's lots of room for talking about knocks on the door, and who fears who in Pulp Fiction too.

Thinking about North Korea is interesting because the media coverage is so slim. What can I trust? Maybe I'm just living in a personalised version of the Truman Show. But the closest we have to a knock on the door is fear of economic strife, and very rare but overhyped incidents of domestic terrorism.

    > why there haven't been a popular revolt, against
    > the government, if people are that oppressed
Revolution is a rare thing.

I assume North Koreans have to deal with twisted language as well, and they're not allowed to talk to one another to work out their ideas. Marxism is filled with weasel words like "permanent revolution".

Imagine how your brain would work if you had been born and bred on a diet of astrology, and taught that even discussing interpretations of what the people with guns say will have immediate, dire consequences.

Most of history is dictatorship and compliance. What we have at the moment feels normal because it's what we know. But really it's a special exception to everything that has come before, and the reality for most of the people who are alive even today.

I'm glad you challenged the post, I didn't have a bunch of these ideas an hour ago.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#27

Post by fredoliveira »

rikacomet wrote: post #2

As long as they don't nuke anyone, I believe North Koreans have every right to live as they want, no matter how strange/hilarious/unmeaning/suppressed their lifestyle may seem to us. EDIT: Explanation- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5694012

Being a contrarian will make you look interesting in some cases, ignorant in so many others. You should be a little more informed about what's happening in North Korea and about how exactly their people have "every right to live as they want".

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#28

Post by alinajaf »

rikacomet wrote: post #13
DLay wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, did I miss the sarcasm in this post? Please peruse these hand drawn pictures done by a North Korean defector depicting what life is like at one of their concentration camp--at your leisure, of course: http://imgur.com/a/648Mv http://www.northkoreanrefugees.com/2007-09-atbirth.htm To add to that, North Koreans have this policy called "third generation punishment". If a person does something that's frowned u…

India has a policy called AFSPA, MCOCA, and POTA, that basically allow armed forces, not civil forces, to arrest, shoot, or kill any person without any trial, proof. Prevalent in at least two states: J&K and Nagaland. Turnout in last elections was near the national average. Rest is upto you to adjudge.

I'm not quite sure how that answers DLays points. Care to elaborate?

He/she was pointing out that people the children, and childrens children of people who are deemed enemies of the state are not free to live how they want.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#29

Post by ezequiel-garzon »

rikacomet wrote: post #19
cturner wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your first comment wasn't so good. But here you pose a great thought experiment. To run with your point for a moment - it is possible to consider the idea of a caste system. Most hacker news readers would be disgusted at it, but you could imagine it being run humanely, and the people there would be content to live as they are. Here's my rule zero of political freedom: do you live in fear of a knock on the door in the…

Yes, you have a very good point regarding caste system. About first post being, not that good, well I got that feeling (haha) No shit! well, there is a need for scrutiny, as to why there haven't been a popular revolt, against the government, if people are that oppressed, as we are being lead to believe.

And how would we know about that popular revolt? I know you're busy answering everybody's replies... but I'd like to add, stating the obvious, that I strongly doubt there's any society with millions+ people where "they live as they want", with "they" = "they all". It just so happens that I can if I so desire read the American Chomskies but not his North Korean counterparts, who, I feel (without proof), must exist.

Re: North Korea's silent football matches

#30

Post by rikacomet »

cturner wrote: post #26
rikacomet wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, you have a very good point regarding caste system. About first post being, not that good, well I got that feeling (haha) No shit! well, there is a need for scrutiny, as to why there haven't been a popular revolt, against the government, if people are that oppressed, as we are being lead to believe.

Regarding the caste thing, had some more thoughts. Django Unchained plays with this. At first, you don't know where Stephen fits in. Is he a slave who "knows his place"? But he's so disrespectful! Gradually you learn that he has carved out a special role for himself at the expense of others. There's lots of room for talking about knocks on the door, and who fears who in Pulp Fiction too. Thinking about North Korea is…

It depends, whether this is the case with NK as well. As it is, they are indeed subject to a fair amount of our interference, Ideas, or whatever you call it.

But the fundamental issues of a country are poverty, education, shelter, etc. Why?

Well, if you are hungry, a lifetime of servitude to psychological brainwash, would not turn the millions of years of instinct. If that situation worsens, people across North Korea would have been angry, even if they don't express it immediately.

This anger, increases overtime based on atrocities caused by the government.

But imagine, America coming in to NK, in the name of liberalizing the people, and causing more death, famine, and stuff in the process, which is not avoidable.

It would be too easy for the great leader to propagate, and even easier for the people to accept, that all fault lies with America and its allies, thus causing a failure of attainment of objective, i.e to provide people a way to better life.

The war against NK, if it exist, is at the base level. Organizations like RedCross, UNESCO, and others have to be pressed upon.

Not more economic sanctions, and threats to a society, that understands very little about your intention.

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