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Open APIs are the new software patents

api500.com

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Re: Open APIs are the new software patents

#21

Post by tbrownaw »

pessimizer wrote: post #19
tbrownaw wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to make use of open source tooling, driving the cost down to zero Because their employees' time is worthless? without giving anything back Isn't this a bit of a red herring? Local forks have a maintenance cost, so there is still an incentive to contribute and improvements back upstream (isn't this why BSD-licence projects do not in fact receive zero contributions from corporate users?). Conversely, postin…

Free licenses always restrict use. You cannot use them without sharing your changes. I don't know what an "Open/free" license is, but if it's your invention, I guess you get to define what a "True" one is.

Free licenses always restrict use. You cannot use them without sharing your changes.

From section 0 of the GPLv2:

Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are not covered by this License; they are outside its scope. The act of running the Program is not restricted

That seems to be explicitly not restricting use, yes?

I don't know what an "Open/free" license is

The Open Source and Free Software people tend to use similar (and often the same) licenses, even tho they don't like eachother and can't agree on anything (or rather they only agree until someone points out that they're agreeing, at which point they start nitpicking on their ideological differences).

Re: Open APIs are the new software patents

#22

Post by print »

pessimizer wrote: post #18
print wrote: post #16

Moving beyond the multiple typos, broken English, and weird linebreaks, which are extremely distracting and majorly detract from the author's points -- Author's analogy (Prop. APIs == Patents) is completely false. These juridical and technical restrictions and business dependance [sic] with specific licensing defined by ToS are a new kind of patent. I call bullshit! If anything, APIs are protected by copyright law ,…

>there are perfectly legal ways to clone the backend service and construct an API that is basically identical. >If there is a monopoly power on behalf of proprietary APIs, it's created by market inertia and NOT by a state-granted artificial legal monopoly. Or it's created by the investment necessary to retool everything to work with a "basically identical" API which cannot be substantially identical. I wonder if they…

I'm not sure what you're getting at -- copying an API interface is allowed, because API interfaces are not copyrightable see Oracle v. Google.

Re: Open APIs are the new software patents

#23

Post by cwp »

pessimizer wrote: post #19
tbrownaw wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to make use of open source tooling, driving the cost down to zero Because their employees' time is worthless? without giving anything back Isn't this a bit of a red herring? Local forks have a maintenance cost, so there is still an incentive to contribute and improvements back upstream (isn't this why BSD-licence projects do not in fact receive zero contributions from corporate users?). Conversely, postin…

Free licenses always restrict use. You cannot use them without sharing your changes. I don't know what an "Open/free" license is, but if it's your invention, I guess you get to define what a "True" one is.

First, not all free licenses require you to share changes. See, for example, the MIT and BSD licenses. They only require that you preserve the copyright notice, and refrain from suing the original authors.

Second, even the GPL doesn't stop you from using a modified version, just from distributing modified versions without the source code. From the preamble to the GPL "if you distribute copies of such a program, whether gratis or for a fee, you must pass on to the recipients the same freedoms that you received."

The fact that web services don't actually distribute software at all is what inspired the AGPL license in the first place.

Finally, "open/free" refers to the distinction between "open source" licenses as defined by the Open Source Initiative (opensource.org) and "free software" as defined by the Free Software Foundation (fsf.org). As a practical matter, they are similar, but the two organizations have different philosophies.

Re: Open APIs are the new software patents

#24

Post by narag »

pessimizer wrote: post #19
tbrownaw wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ability to make use of open source tooling, driving the cost down to zero Because their employees' time is worthless? without giving anything back Isn't this a bit of a red herring? Local forks have a maintenance cost, so there is still an incentive to contribute and improvements back upstream (isn't this why BSD-licence projects do not in fact receive zero contributions from corporate users?). Conversely, postin…

Free licenses always restrict use. You cannot use them without sharing your changes. I don't know what an "Open/free" license is, but if it's your invention, I guess you get to define what a "True" one is.

Free licenses always restrict use. You cannot use them without sharing your changes.

You managed to compress several errors in just two sentences. Free licenses aim to unrestricted use, that's their very reason to be. Search for "software freedoms". You're not forced to share changes, except in very few licences like MPL. Some (not all) free licenses ask you to distribute source for derivative works. Most ask you neither.

Re: Open APIs are the new software patents

#25

Post by [deleted] »

cwp wrote: post #23
pessimizer wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Free licenses always restrict use. You cannot use them without sharing your changes. I don't know what an "Open/free" license is, but if it's your invention, I guess you get to define what a "True" one is.

First, not all free licenses require you to share changes. See, for example, the MIT and BSD licenses. They only require that you preserve the copyright notice, and refrain from suing the original authors. Second, even the GPL doesn't stop you from using a modified version, just from distributing modified versions without the source code. From the preamble to the GPL "if you distribute copies of such a program, wheth…

[deleted]

Re: Open APIs are the new software patents

#26

Post by rubinelli »

pjmlp wrote: post #5

Lets not forget another feature of web APIs that makes them loved by the enterprise. The ability to make use of open source tooling, driving the cost down to zero, without giving anything back, because customers cannot prove what technology stack is being used.

In practice, this is a non-issue. Aside from drivers (without which you can't run your hardware), you really don't want that code. My years in the Enterprise side taught me that the more upper-management worries about "protecting the IP", the less actual value said IP has.

Re: Open APIs are the new software patents

#27

Post by Guvante »

mickaelkel wrote: post #10
alexchamberlain wrote: post #9

This was really hard to read... I had to give up. Did the Oracle vs Google case prove that APIs aren't the new patent?

It was "copyright troll" You can consider it at a API oriented "patent troll". This proves that some API providers want to keep juridical and commercial protection out of their APIs, as it was a patent. Have you seen all the recent API Terms of service changes because of competiting business model of 3rd party applications?

Except it isn't the same as the only time your API is valuable is if you have data, which you wouldn't have if it was a shell company.

Re: Open APIs are the new software patents

#28

Post by LesZedCB »

print wrote: post #22
pessimizer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>there are perfectly legal ways to clone the backend service and construct an API that is basically identical. >If there is a monopoly power on behalf of proprietary APIs, it's created by market inertia and NOT by a state-granted artificial legal monopoly. Or it's created by the investment necessary to retool everything to work with a "basically identical" API which cannot be substantially identical. I wonder if they…

I'm not sure what you're getting at -- copying an API interface is allowed, because API interfaces are not copyrightable see Oracle v. Google .

API: Application Program Interface.

There is nothing other than the interface of an API to copy. That's what it is.

However, the implementation is what copyright protects, so, honestly, I think this whole article is not very relevant.

Re: Open APIs are the new software patents

#29

Post by onemorepassword »

print wrote: post #16

Moving beyond the multiple typos, broken English, and weird linebreaks, which are extremely distracting and majorly detract from the author's points -- Author's analogy (Prop. APIs == Patents) is completely false. These juridical and technical restrictions and business dependance [sic] with specific licensing defined by ToS are a new kind of patent. I call bullshit! If anything, APIs are protected by copyright law ,…

I love how can argue that APIs are protected by copyright law but claim that that is not a "state-granted artificial legal monopoly".

Re: Open APIs are the new software patents

#30

Post by print »

LesZedCB wrote: post #28
print wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you're getting at -- copying an API interface is allowed, because API interfaces are not copyrightable see Oracle v. Google .

API: Application Program Interface. There is nothing other than the interface of an API to copy. That's what it is. However, the implementation is what copyright protects, so, honestly, I think this whole article is not very relevant.

Yes, my point is that "the API" as in the interface itself can be the copied, but "the API" (implementation) cannot. Clear? :)
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