Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

madinamerica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 211 posts

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#21

Post by 6cxs2hd6 »

chris_mahan wrote: post #5

Wait, let me guess... As such, they are not allowed to buy weapons, right? How convenient...

This is why we can't have nice firearms.

Seriously: I fully support background checks -- extending what we already have, to cover all sales. I also think that if motor vehicles require registration, insurance, and license to operate, then firearms sure as heck should, too.

Even so, if I'm being intellectually honest, I also have a twinge of doubt when it comes to "mental health" grounds, and I have some concern about a Minority Report pre-cog sort of exercise.

This will probably just get me down-votes from both sides of the debate, but, there you have it.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#22

Post by gdsimoes »

tokenadult wrote: post #6

I don't like this article's groundless speculation about Albert Einstein, who is used as an unwilling poster child for dozens of causes without support in Einstein's actual biography. I have carefully read Einstein's longest autobiographical writing, and cite it on my personal website, http://learninfreedom.org/Nobel_hates_school.html and while it is indisputable that Einstein blew off some of his school homework, it…

I read two Einstein's biographies and I have come to the conclusion that if he was born today he would probably be a college drop out. Some people say that geniuses always survives life hardships, but the fact that there are no new Einsteins (or Maxwells, Plancks...) seems to show this isn't true.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#24

Post by nostrademons »

neilk wrote: post #3

I sometimes ask mental health professionals what the converse of Oppositional Defiant Disorder is. At what point do we recognize a disorder in a child who is unnaturally compliant and obedient? No answer so far. I ask because I think I had this. When I was a young prodigy I had the mentality of a performing seal. It's true that some people have difficulty controlling themselves, and they do need help. But the lack of…

"Low self-esteem", sometimes colloquially called "people pleasing" or "being a doormat". A good therapist will recognize this and encourage the child to develop more of their own interests and assert themselves more.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#26

Post by jbooth »

chris_mahan wrote: post #15
bjhoops1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me you don't actually want these folks armed.

Wait, weren't the people who fought to make America independent upset with the King's Authority? Would you not say, today, that they were anti-authorianists? Would you not say that an oppressive government would use such a "medical condition" to confiscate guns from people who disagreed with it? Think hard about this, and ask yourself what you would have done in 1774: sided with the Revolutionaries, or sided with the…

Take it easy on the rhetoric.

No, those founding fathers were not anti-authorianists to the degree that people would call a pathology. The continental congress did not descend into a bunch of bickering every time someone asked someone else to do something. They were mostly, from all reports, pretty well-adjusted and got along with each other civilly even with major disagreements on how to do things.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#27

Post by madaxe »

The trick is largely to learn when to shut your gob, or say one thing and do another. I was repeatedly diagnosed with ADHD and ODD in my year of school in the states - flushed the pills, got expelled (well, forced to leave, as they didn't want an expulsion on their squeaky clean record).

Back to school in England... "Engaged", "curious", "incisive questions". Partially down to cultural differences in terms of views on mental health (I'm merely "eccentric" these days), and partially down to me doing a year long master class in the states as to how to lie my arse off and pretend to accept authority while rejecting it.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#28

Post by VLM »

WayneDB wrote: post #13
bjhoops1 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please tell me you don't actually want these folks armed.

Who? Anti-authoritarians or the mentally ill folks?

The purpose of the article was to claim that the opinion of the only people legally allowed to make diagnoses is that the venn diagram shows the anti-authoritarians completely enclosed as a subset of the mentally ill folks.

The author's personal experience was being diagnosed with "issues with authority" because he didn't kiss up to his crazy boss. I don't see any conflict between not kissing up to his boss and owning firearms, so sure, let him go deer hunting on vacation if he's got no other, real, issues.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#29

Post by notahacker »

tokenadult wrote: post #6

I don't like this article's groundless speculation about Albert Einstein, who is used as an unwilling poster child for dozens of causes without support in Einstein's actual biography. I have carefully read Einstein's longest autobiographical writing, and cite it on my personal website, http://learninfreedom.org/Nobel_hates_school.html and while it is indisputable that Einstein blew off some of his school homework, it…

Yeah, the Einstein reference triggered my bullshit filter too. If the best evidence you can cite for Einstein being pathologically anti-authoritarian is a dislike of Prussian discipline, failing exams he was pushed into taking early and a patchy graduate employment record, you've haven't distinguished his behaviour from millions of present-day Americans who manage to be stroppy teenagers and underemployed young adults without attracting the attention of mental health professionals.

I'd much rather hear anonymised examples of alleged misdiagnosis (I'm sure they do exist) but the author is surprisingly reticent on that front. He even observes that his patients previously diagnosed with various psychoses had "fully recovered" whilst retaining their anti-authoritarian streak: implicitly acknowledging they probably did have a problem and that losing an anti-authoritarian streak wasn't a prerequisite to recovery.

I'm pretty receptive to arguments that certain disorders are overdiagnosed but the article has surprisingly little to say about that.

Re: Why Anti-Authoritarians are Diagnosed as Mentally Ill (2012)

#30

Post by ctdonath »

Jtsummers wrote: post #25
chris_mahan wrote: post #5

Wait, let me guess... As such, they are not allowed to buy weapons, right? How convenient...

Out of curiosity, why bring that into this discussion? The linked article says nothing about firearms.

Because it absolutely is a related issue these days. New York and California are, as a result of very recent legislation, actively seeking out and disarming those labeled "mentally ill". The USA's federal leadership is pressing hard to do the same. Genuine at-risk cases aside, we're facing a situation where sensible liberty-defending anti-authoritarian citizens may very well be involuntarily labeled as ODD and disarmed & silenced, much as many communist countries have done at length to great effect.
Post reply on HN