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Why Twitch Needs A Competitor

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21–30 of 46 posts

Re: Why Twitch Needs A Competitor

#21
post #5

This is THE thing that governments should solve. It should be illegal for companies to refuse service to anyone or offer them worse terms that someone they never did business with. Even more generally, it should be illegal to ban users from any service, and censor public speech in any way, even on private forums.

Are you suggesting that using a company's hosted product should be a right?

Yes, if they are offering it to the general public.

Re: Why Twitch Needs A Competitor

#22
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that using a company's hosted product should be a right?

Yes, if they are offering it to the general public.

If you owned a retail store, and someone came in every day yelling and screaming and breaking things, would you say they should have the right to do so, since the store is open to the public?

Re: Why Twitch Needs A Competitor

#23
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that using a company's hosted product should be a right?

Yes, if they are offering it to the general public.

Why? If you really feel strongly that this is practical and everything should be allowed, you can go ahead and offer your own Nazis-and-pedophiles-welcome streaming service. I don't see why others should have their freedom of association revoked just because of your personal whims.

Re: Why Twitch Needs A Competitor

#24
post #20

I think we should take a step back for a second and remember that before Twitch it was largely impossible to turn video game skills into a paying career. Now many top players are able to finance their lives while still concentrating on their game. There are of course kinks that need to be worked out, but now you at least have one option, before you had zero.

Are there any publications regarding how much money Twitch streamers make? I imagine actual regular casters of top eSports, like LoL and SC2, are making much more money than some dude streaming World of Warcraft.

Destiny, who is a very controversial streamer, (and probably doesn't make this much anymore) said he made about 3.5k/month from streaming 1.5k for lessons. He was a pretty heavy streamer with lots of viewers. This was 2 years ago though so the numbers may have changed.

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/g7q91/iam_destiny_i_qu...

Re: Why Twitch Needs A Competitor

#25
post #5

This is THE thing that governments should solve. It should be illegal for companies to refuse service to anyone or offer them worse terms that someone they never did business with. Even more generally, it should be illegal to ban users from any service, and censor public speech in any way, even on private forums.

Wow... this is extremely anti-business. I don't think you understand that offering a service puts you in a situation of both liability and obligation. As it is, you don't technically have an obligation to do more than is provided for in your terms; however, the reality is that, in order to be successful, you need to do whatever your customers require within the sphere of services and offerings that can be expected based on your claims and advertisement.

Requiring businesses to provide their products or services to absolutely anyone -- and continue doing so even when a user has clearly violated the spirit of service or product usage (because in this scenario there would be little or no value to any kind of terms of use) -- means taking away any means any business would otherwise have of protecting its revenue stream in reasonable ways.

Freedom of speech on private forums... now you're coming across as either a troll (successful) or a kid who's gotten banned for posting too much porn/hate speech/insulting mods too many times.

Anyway, there are good reasons that governments shouldn't restrict a business' ability to choose not to do business with entities as they wish.

Re: Why Twitch Needs A Competitor

#26
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that using a company's hosted product should be a right?

Yes, if they are offering it to the general public.

Federal case law protects the rights of people to refuse service based on protecting business interests. LegalZoom has a nice blog post on it [0]. Unruh Civil Rights Law does prevent arbitrary discrimination though.

[0]: http://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equal-rights/right-refuse-se...

Re: Why Twitch Needs A Competitor

#27
post #24
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there any publications regarding how much money Twitch streamers make? I imagine actual regular casters of top eSports, like LoL and SC2, are making much more money than some dude streaming World of Warcraft.

Destiny, who is a very controversial streamer, (and probably doesn't make this much anymore) said he made about 3.5k/month from streaming 1.5k for lessons. He was a pretty heavy streamer with lots of viewers. This was 2 years ago though so the numbers may have changed. http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/g7q91/iam_destiny_i_qu...

At about that same time, members of Counter Logic Gaming were claiming to make 5-6k a month each streaming, and that they actually lost money going to tournaments and winning them, if they had just put in a normal amount of time streaming over those weekends.

Re: Why Twitch Needs A Competitor

#28
post #12

I think we should take a step back for a second and remember that before Twitch it was largely impossible to turn video game skills into a paying career. Now many top players are able to finance their lives while still concentrating on their game. There are of course kinks that need to be worked out, but now you at least have one option, before you had zero.

There were other services before twitch. Before it was shut down, Own3d tv provided a decent income for a few streamers.

Many streamers moved from Own3D to Twitch because Own3D was not making good on owed payments. Twitch needs competition to force it to improve its ToS, but it's been good for gaming.

Re: Why Twitch Needs A Competitor

#29
Hi All, this is a conversation near and dear to my heart, as we've been working on building a Twitch competitor for nearly two years. We're very close to having a finished product, but as we've all seen with Own3d (and many other video platforms over the years); it's take a fair amount of capital to actually launch and sustain a viable business in this space.

We've thought long and hard about bootstrap launching, but we've decided that route simply doesn't allow us to offer the level of service we think you deserve.

To those who think that game streaming is a goldmine of cash, I can confidently say to you that it is not. It's a high-volume, low margin business at this point. There are a few who make some cash.

But most of that is a loss leader for another product. Like Riot Games - think their eSports division makes any net profit? Or do you think it's mostly an advertisement that drives players to LOL?

There IS opportunity here, and an opportunity that can be good for many, as opposed to the few, but it takes a lot more than just throwing up a pre-roll video ad in front of your livestream.

That's one reason we're working on some really innovative ways to help engage audiences and leverage expanded types of business models with your channels.

At any rate, happy to dive into the conversation further if anyone is interested.

We've also launched an online petition to help us get the attention of other venture cap and private equity investors; since this has been part of our battle for the last year.

If you really want to see another competitor in the space, help us prove the market to a generation of people (financiers) who do not understand game streaming at all.

http://www.change.org/petitions/vc-s-private-equity-and-ange...?

Thanks for your support!

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