How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon • Hacker News Board

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#21

Post by flootch » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:16 PM UTC

danilocampos wrote: post #19

flootch wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heh, I thought that was your job. If you actually are interested, see this post and all of the comments: http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-helps-... I admit I don't understand the downvotes. danilocampus invited me to a comment war, I graciously declined with a bit of humor.

So, Github unveiled a diversity initiative. Which would appear to be their prerogative... Can you help me connect the dots between that and people making victims out of themselves?

See http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-helps-...

Women aren't frail damsels that need your condescending efforts, or need your overly protective assumptions that are mainly patriarchy disguised as a cape to help them cross a puddle that you can manage.

The key to more women in tech is outreach and education, not patronization and tales that they are frail, and need protection and special treatment.

You can have the last word, but next time, try reading the link I share with you.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#22

Post by mnicole » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:23 PM UTC

taroth wrote: post #6

Anyone else find the tone of this article to be condescending? "Let’s focus on how one teenage girl, Jennie Lamere, defeated a room full of smart, motivated, experienced, full-grown men. This would seem to be instructive to the greater argument about women in technology, and besides, it has the added bonus of being -> based in fact rather than opinion As if the argument for women is based primarily on opinion. “It’s…

I don't think it's condescending; I think they're just trying to say that anyone can accomplish anything even if it seems the odds are against them. Would you be just as offended if it said "teenage boy?"

The second statement you call out is important because -- and I wish I could find the interviews -- many female entrepreneurs admitted that it was difficult to get funding for projects that didn't have a female skew. That is not to say that gender-biased ideas aren't valuable, but pushing women to work on women-centric issues is already a problem.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#23

Post by greatquux » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:29 PM UTC

I was pretty flabbergasted to hear she's learned more at hackathons than her AP Computer Science class. What the hell are we doing in our educational system then? Is any of it actually worth anything if it's not resulting in real learning?

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#24

Post by danilocampos » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:32 PM UTC

flootch wrote: post #21

danilocampos wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Github unveiled a diversity initiative. Which would appear to be their prerogative... Can you help me connect the dots between that and people making victims out of themselves?

See http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-helps-... Women aren't frail damsels that need your condescending efforts, or need your overly protective assumptions that are mainly patriarchy disguised as a cape to help them cross a puddle that you can manage. The key to more women in tech is outreach and education, not patronization and tales that they are frail, and need protection and special treatment.…

> Women aren't frail damsels that need your condescending efforts, or need your overly protective assumptions...

On its own, that does indeed seem reasonable, even if dubiously relevant.

But where does the "self-victimization" come in? This remains my chief curiosity and you've yet to address it beyond general hand-waving in the direction of a very lengthy block of text.

If you might kindly boil your position on "self-victimization" into a sentence or two, I would be most appreciative. I am challenged to square it with your other remarks, but I'm certain I'm just missing something.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#25

Post by mnicole » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:33 PM UTC

flootch wrote: post #21

danilocampos wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, Github unveiled a diversity initiative. Which would appear to be their prerogative... Can you help me connect the dots between that and people making victims out of themselves?

See http://www.thepowerbase.com/2013/04/github-graciously-helps-... Women aren't frail damsels that need your condescending efforts, or need your overly protective assumptions that are mainly patriarchy disguised as a cape to help them cross a puddle that you can manage. The key to more women in tech is outreach and education, not patronization and tales that they are frail, and need protection and special treatment.…

No one's saying women need to be coddled; the problem is that people recognize that the current state of the industry/the internet are jerks. You can only tell people to ignore bullying so long, especially when those doing the bullying aren't being punished, but those that are being victimized by it are being told to instead change this perceived weakness about themselves.

People should not have to worry about being made fun of while they're trying to learn something difficult. Recently we had that female Mozilla employee whose code (for a personal project, no less) was made fun of by three semi-prominent developers on Twitter. The consensus on HN was that there was nothing wrong with her code, but that she was being picked on solely for being a girl. In bringing the issue up, two of the three apologized, with the third going the route of "It isn't my fault you are offended,".

That is why it is important to foster good relationships, positivity and trust early-on. It has nothing to do with treating anyone like a princess and everything to do with the truth of how people treat women online (and off) and allowing these girls to find mentors and people that inspire them that they can better relate to.

The commenter you linked to doesn't realize that within that repo, there's a Team of everyone that signed up for this, allowing them to start projects and teach amongst themselves. That is the end-game here; allow people to learn without concern. No one seemed to have a problem with the concept of private repos before this and the Ada Initiative's private repo was highly successful; I wonder why.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#26

Post by rdouble » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:33 PM UTC

greatquux wrote: post #23

I was pretty flabbergasted to hear she's learned more at hackathons than her AP Computer Science class. What the hell are we doing in our educational system then? Is any of it actually worth anything if it's not resulting in real learning?

Have you ever seen the AP Computer Science materials? They have always been garbage.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#27

Post by stmchn » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:36 PM UTC

greatquux wrote: post #23

I was pretty flabbergasted to hear she's learned more at hackathons than her AP Computer Science class. What the hell are we doing in our educational system then? Is any of it actually worth anything if it's not resulting in real learning?

AP Computer Science isn't very challenging. It's essentially a watered down version of the introductory programming class you have to take in college the last I checked. It's also geared towards the AP test so it doesn't exactly foster that much creativity and innovation.

Sadly, a lot of high schools don't even offer this class in the first place. I think the program at my old high school even got shut down.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#28

Post by err_badprocrast » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:40 PM UTC

greatquux wrote: post #23

I was pretty flabbergasted to hear she's learned more at hackathons than her AP Computer Science class. What the hell are we doing in our educational system then? Is any of it actually worth anything if it's not resulting in real learning?

Introductory (aka prerequisite) computer science classes seem to be aimed at people who're learning from nothing. If you already know C++ in depth (or whatever language is used), a lot of it is just language-specific feature review.

YMMV, this is judged from local state college/community college.

about the education system, I'm of the opinion that high school is mostly a waste of time; I dropped out 2 years early and got a GED instead. (Don't try this at home.)

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#29

Post by gradstudent » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:43 PM UTC

noonespecial wrote: post #3

However, she points out that “women in tech” stories are also simply “tech stories.” Good point. As I always whisper to my own daughter, "the computer can't tell you're a girl."

I get what you're trying to do, or at least I think I do, but I also simultaneously think there's something not-quite-right with your statement. I think you need to be careful that you're not reinforcing to your daughter that being a girl is a kind of disability. One that she doesn't have to try and hide from the computer, only people.

Re: How A 17-Year-Old Girl Won a Hackathon

#30

Post by biot » Tue, Apr 30, 2013, 10:48 PM UTC

greatquux wrote: post #23

I was pretty flabbergasted to hear she's learned more at hackathons than her AP Computer Science class. What the hell are we doing in our educational system then? Is any of it actually worth anything if it's not resulting in real learning?

I'm not surprised. I can imagine a doctor saying they learned more from doing a few surgeries than from years of education on anatomy and surgical techniques. It says that hands-on practical experience provides far more information than theoretical concepts in a classroom. I don't think it would be wise to have doctors skip their education, however, as the education provides the framework of understanding which enables the hands-on experience to be so beneficial.