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Yahoo Expands Maternity, Paternity Leave

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Re: Yahoo Expands Maternity, Paternity Leave

#21

Post by juiceandjuice »

bluthru wrote: post #9
john_b wrote: post #4

Is anyone aware of how the courts have interpreted things like this (if at all)? > "Under the new policy, mothers can take 16 weeks of paid leave with benefits, and fathers can take up to eight weeks" Would that not be considered discriminatory?

The problem is that different paternity/maternity times makes employers view women as more hazardous. This also reinforces the sexist notion that fathers aren't as integral to early childhood development. I'm sure a new mother would love the extra help for another 8 weeks! Also, lets say that you're a child adopted by a homosexual married couple and you only get 8 weeks. How is that fair to the adopted child versus 1…

If you gave birth, 16 weeks. If you didn't, 8.

Now there is an equal metric regardless of the sex. Happy?

Re: Yahoo Expands Maternity, Paternity Leave

#22

Post by HorizonXP »

To be honest, this is exactly why I do not plan on starting a family in the Bay Area, and instead, will return back to Toronto.

http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/pregnancy.... http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/ei/types/maternity_parent...

Basically, in Ontario, mothers are eligible for 17 weeks of pregnancy leave. After giving birth, both parents are eligible for up to 37 weeks of parental leave.

This time is unpaid, but has no impact on your benefits, length of employment, seniority, etc. Many companies do pay for this time off, especially since the government employment insurance program will help if your weekly income drops below 40%.

The money helps significantly, but for me, it's more about the time. These are important and formative weeks during your child and family's development. A couple of my friends just had a baby, and I can see how much they cherish every moment they spend with him.

I won't be worrying about these kinds of benefits for a few more years, but it's still something that I view as important.

Re: Yahoo Expands Maternity, Paternity Leave

#23

Post by nostromo »

jerf wrote: post #19
bluthru wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that different paternity/maternity times makes employers view women as more hazardous. This also reinforces the sexist notion that fathers aren't as integral to early childhood development. I'm sure a new mother would love the extra help for another 8 weeks! Also, lets say that you're a child adopted by a homosexual married couple and you only get 8 weeks. How is that fair to the adopted child versus 1…

The point at which your politics leads you to claim that sex (in this case we rather aren't talking gender, but actual sex) experiences in childbirth should be treated precisely equally is the point at which you need to sit down with your politics and have a long, heartfelt discussion vis a vis your politics' connection to reality. Some recognition of the differences in experience and particularly in consequences are…

bluthru's more important point is that by offering different amounts of time off for men and women you're disincentivizing managers from hiring women.

The simplest way of removing this "hidden tax" on hiring women is to make the tax the same for men.

A proper policy would give equal maternal/paternal time off for both parents for either birth or adoption, and also have some sort of paid medical leave program in place for complicated pregnancies (and of course, all other medical problems).

Re: Yahoo Expands Maternity, Paternity Leave

#24

Post by newnewnew »

john_b wrote: post #4

Is anyone aware of how the courts have interpreted things like this (if at all)? > "Under the new policy, mothers can take 16 weeks of paid leave with benefits, and fathers can take up to eight weeks" Would that not be considered discriminatory?

Men are not a protected group. Do you know of any government program aimed at compensating for male underperformance or that is biased in favor of males?

Re: Yahoo Expands Maternity, Paternity Leave

#25

Post by davidw »

nostromo wrote: post #23
jerf wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point at which your politics leads you to claim that sex (in this case we rather aren't talking gender, but actual sex) experiences in childbirth should be treated precisely equally is the point at which you need to sit down with your politics and have a long, heartfelt discussion vis a vis your politics' connection to reality. Some recognition of the differences in experience and particularly in consequences are…

bluthru's more important point is that by offering different amounts of time off for men and women you're disincentivizing managers from hiring women. The simplest way of removing this "hidden tax" on hiring women is to make the tax the same for men. A proper policy would give equal maternal/paternal time off for both parents for either birth or adoption, and also have some sort of paid medical leave program in place…

> have some sort of paid medical leave program in place for complicated pregnancies

Anecdotally, lots of women in Italy have "difficult pregnancies" because the incentives are there for it. They're happy to have extra time off, and doctors, when in doubt, are not going to choose the riskier option.

Re: Yahoo Expands Maternity, Paternity Leave

#26

Post by itafroma »

just2n wrote: post #18
pc86 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, because what the policy is essentially doing is saying "anyone with a new kid gets 8 weeks off. If you happened to have actually given birth to the kid, we'll give you an extra 8 weeks." As others have stated, it would only be discriminatory if it was based on gender, but it's not - it's based on whether or not you had the physical toll of childbirth, as evident in the adoption v. birth difference for women. It w…

Without trying to get involved, I just want to point out that it is (currently) physically impossible for males to give birth. So it would appear that such a claim is implicitly identifying a gender by excluding all of the other gender.

That would be true if the policy gave women 16 weeks and men 8 weeks, regardless of whether or not the woman gave birth. But, as reported, if you did not give birth, for example if you adopted a child, you only get 8 weeks: even if you are a woman.

A larger point could be made that it's somewhat pointless to speculate about whether a policy is sexist when we're hearing a brief summary from a secondary source. A large aspect of this is how the policy is actually worded and carried out in practice.

Re: Yahoo Expands Maternity, Paternity Leave

#27

Post by timjahn »

HorizonXP wrote: post #22

To be honest, this is exactly why I do not plan on starting a family in the Bay Area, and instead, will return back to Toronto. http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/pregnancy.... http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/ei/types/maternity_parent... Basically, in Ontario, mothers are eligible for 17 weeks of pregnancy leave. After giving birth, both parents are eligible for up to 37 weeks of parental leave. Thi…

>> These are important and formative weeks during your child and family's development. A couple of my friends just had a baby, and I can see how much they cherish every moment they spend with him.

This cannot be overstated. The first few moments/hours/days/weeks/months of your child's life (especially your first) are insanely awesome/frightening/joyous/exciting/sleep-depriving/stressful/fun/inspiring/just-freaking-cool.

It's not an experience I would want to miss for any reason. I'll probably never understand people who go back to work after a week or two.

Re: Yahoo Expands Maternity, Paternity Leave

#29

Post by sp332 »

newnewnew wrote: post #24
john_b wrote: post #4

Is anyone aware of how the courts have interpreted things like this (if at all)? > "Under the new policy, mothers can take 16 weeks of paid leave with benefits, and fathers can take up to eight weeks" Would that not be considered discriminatory?

Men are not a protected group. Do you know of any government program aimed at compensating for male underperformance or that is biased in favor of males?

What does this have to do with government programs? Gender is a protected category, and many policies (not sure about laws specifically) prohibit discrimination according to gender just as they do about race, age, etc.

Re: Yahoo Expands Maternity, Paternity Leave

#30

Post by throwaway1979 »

HorizonXP wrote: post #22

To be honest, this is exactly why I do not plan on starting a family in the Bay Area, and instead, will return back to Toronto. http://www.labour.gov.on.ca/english/es/pubs/guide/pregnancy.... http://www.servicecanada.gc.ca/eng/ei/types/maternity_parent... Basically, in Ontario, mothers are eligible for 17 weeks of pregnancy leave. After giving birth, both parents are eligible for up to 37 weeks of parental leave. Thi…

Heh ... be careful my friend! Moving to Canada when you are ready to start a family is non-trivial if your spouse isn't Canadian :(
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