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Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

#21

Post by coldtea »

swinglock wrote: post #4
sergiotapia wrote: post #3

>hacking into several Swedish companies and stealing personal data Are these allegations true? If so, I don't think this man deserves sympathies. The punishment may be too harsh in my opinion for these type of crimes, but they are crimes nonetheless.

He's charged, not guilty. I don't think anyone here could answer if it's true.

Not to mention that thousands of people have been found guilty, only to be proven innocent (sometimes after decades in jail).

Or that tons of people have been found guilty (and never could proved their innocence), with fabricated data by some corrupt government agency.

Re: Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

#22

Post by draugadrotten »

pathy wrote: post #12
np422 wrote: post #8

There is a high probability that this is false accusations, just "because we can" from the prosecutors ... I'm from Sweden and I'm very sad to say that I don't consider Sweden to fulfil all the requirements for rule of law and legal security. Even if he is acquitted from the crimes in a trial he will have spent a few months arrested and we don't have a bail system here in Sweden. Both European committee for the preve…

Have you even read the indictment? A casual look seems to indicate that the investigation is very thorough. (See another post here for link) And if anyone is a flight risk who would never be granted bail it is Gottfried, He has already fled a sentence once - that is not to say that being in a 'häkte' is fun or humane, depending on circumstances. Finally: >I'm from Sweden and I'm very sad to say that I don't consider…

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/sweden/report-2012

Re: Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

#23

Post by Kiro »

white_devil wrote: post #18
sergiotapia wrote: post #3

>hacking into several Swedish companies and stealing personal data Are these allegations true? If so, I don't think this man deserves sympathies. The punishment may be too harsh in my opinion for these type of crimes, but they are crimes nonetheless.

It's bullshit propaganda, and the charges are just as valid as Assange's rape charges, courtesy of the same corrupt government. The US entertainment industry wants to make an example of him. >> He was also charged with hacking into the computer servers of Logica, a Swedish company that handles tax documents. "Oh noes! Don't hack our taxes !!" Logica is a big, bloated IT services company that makes (shitty) custom sof…

Corrupt government? Are we talking about Sweden or Somalia? Sweden is one of the least corrupt countries in the world so please stop with your ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Re: Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

#24

Post by coldtea »

pathy wrote: post #19
white_devil wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> I'm from Sweden and I'm very sad to say that I don't consider Sweden to fulfil all the requirements for rule of law and legal security. [Citation Neeeded] What kind of "citation" would you expect? The Swedish government to tell you they're dirty?

I would like citations on the fact that Sweden doesn't fulfill the requirement for rule of law and legal security A random google search revealed this site: http://worldjusticeproject.org/rule-law-index-map A quick look suggests that the rule of law in Sweden is among the highest in the world. But if you got any sources on the contrary I would be happy to read them.

>A quick look suggests that the rule of law in Sweden is among the highest in the world. But if you got any sources on the contrary I would be happy to read them.

Those are just for general cases -- a median of government/police behavior. (Not to mention a lot of those are reported or based on data by government bodies themselves).

Doesn't say squat about specific people targeted by some agency (as examples, unwanted agitators, etc).

The "rule of law" is great in the US too in general, but you have people like J.E Hoover break all the rules in the book, or Senator McCarthy make his own rules, etc. Or you have the government maintain a whole prison, with torture, no due process, no trials, etc at all, outside the country (Guantanamo).

The treatment of law in general cases is not at all the same as the treatment of law in "targeted" cases.

Re: Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

#25

Post by jlouis »

s_henry_paulson wrote: post #14
sergiotapia wrote: post #3

>hacking into several Swedish companies and stealing personal data Are these allegations true? If so, I don't think this man deserves sympathies. The punishment may be too harsh in my opinion for these type of crimes, but they are crimes nonetheless.

He deserves sympathy for the way this has been handled. He has been held for something like 7 months without charges under a law that is supposed to allow holding someone while evidence is gathered. The person is not supposed to be held for more than 7 days, 14 at the most. So they've had to keep filing and getting a judge to approve extensions to keep holding him without charging him. Now, one wonders if they needed…

The judge giving extensions is key here. It is customary to operate like this in Scandinavian countries. The idea is that the police has to make a case to the judge that it is worthwhile to still hold him and that they are making progress in the case. Otherwise he would have been released long ago.

It is quite different from other countries, I know, but law is not handled the same way all over the world.

Re: Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

#26

Post by draugadrotten »

subsystem wrote: post #20
pathy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you even read the indictment? A casual look seems to indicate that the investigation is very thorough. (See another post here for link) And if anyone is a flight risk who would never be granted bail it is Gottfried, He has already fled a sentence once - that is not to say that being in a 'häkte' is fun or humane, depending on circumstances. Finally: >I'm from Sweden and I'm very sad to say that I don't consider…

Since he was already sentanced there was little need from a security perspective to keep him in 'häkte' for three months. Instead they could have just transfered him to the prison where he was to serve his previous sentence (as they eventually did).

Amnesty has repeatedly criticized Sweden for too harsh conditions in the "häkte", where remand prisoners are kept in isolation for extended periods of time.

For some cases prisoners are kept in isolation well over one year. This is a form of low-intensity torture and causes measurable harm to a person's brain and personality - PTSD being one of the more common residual damages done. And remember, people kept in "häkte" remand prison are suspects, still to be treated as innocent, and frequently exonerated by the courts. They still suffer the harm from the extended isolation.

Sweden in many ways have a good prison system but the extensive and common use of isolation by prosecutors is really bad and a disgrace.

Re: Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

#27

Post by draugadrotten »

jlouis wrote: post #25
s_henry_paulson wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He deserves sympathy for the way this has been handled. He has been held for something like 7 months without charges under a law that is supposed to allow holding someone while evidence is gathered. The person is not supposed to be held for more than 7 days, 14 at the most. So they've had to keep filing and getting a judge to approve extensions to keep holding him without charging him. Now, one wonders if they needed…

The judge giving extensions is key here. It is customary to operate like this in Scandinavian countries. The idea is that the police has to make a case to the judge that it is worthwhile to still hold him and that they are making progress in the case. Otherwise he would have been released long ago. It is quite different from other countries, I know, but law is not handled the same way all over the world.

The prosecutor formally has to make the case to extend the remand prison, but it's a formality.

Of course it benefits the prosecutor to keep someone locked up while you work on the prosecution evidence.

But it severly restricts the imprisoned person from working on their defense. Thus, it is bad for the legal principle of "equality at arms".

Re: Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

#28

Post by easytiger »

pathy wrote: post #7
sergiotapia wrote: post #3

>hacking into several Swedish companies and stealing personal data Are these allegations true? If so, I don't think this man deserves sympathies. The punishment may be too harsh in my opinion for these type of crimes, but they are crimes nonetheless.

The indictment can be found here: http://www.aklagare.se/PageFiles/10239/AM_52124_12.pdf (Swedish. Save as, appears to be broken when viewed in browser) A quick read-through seems to suggest that they have quite solid support for it. However, I haven't seen the investigation protocol (FUP) so I cannot say if the actual evidence is any good.

> quite solid support for it.

Constituting?

Re: Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

#29

Post by white_devil »

Kiro wrote: post #23
white_devil wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's bullshit propaganda, and the charges are just as valid as Assange's rape charges, courtesy of the same corrupt government. The US entertainment industry wants to make an example of him. >> He was also charged with hacking into the computer servers of Logica, a Swedish company that handles tax documents. "Oh noes! Don't hack our taxes !!" Logica is a big, bloated IT services company that makes (shitty) custom sof…

Corrupt government? Are we talking about Sweden or Somalia? Sweden is one of the least corrupt countries in the world so please stop with your ridiculous conspiracy theories.

Every government is corrupt, because the very arrangement of government itself leads to corruption.

In Sweden's case, it's just not your average third-world style corruption like "hand me a bag of money and let's see about that building permit" - it's more about various "constituents" trading in favours/influence/power/positions/money.

Of course, the same kind of corruption applies to the US too. For example, campaign contributions are bribes already.

Re: Pirate Bay co-founder charged with hacking and fraud

#30

Post by swang »

draugadrotten wrote: post #17
alan_cx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of interest, would you prefer to face Swedish justice or the US system?

Penalties in the Swedish justice system are humane. Even serious crimes only renders 5-10 years of prison time. Conditions in prisons are far better than the US. Prisoners have private rooms, gym and better food than elderly citizens. The US system have far too severe penalties. Sentences of 10-100 years are now common. Conditions in prisons are horrible with rampant drug abuse, violence and even murders. However, th…

Do you mean less blind? Justice wearing a blindfold implies impartiality and fairness.
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