"But being in school is not something I truly want. I love creating, innovating, pushing myself with real-world challenges and projects, and the amount of satisfaction you get from pushing something out there is tremendous." I've seen this type of sentiment before - it's quite common for people who don't go through school. University level education (quality ones) give the student exactly the same feeling that the au…
I don't want to work for a big company
21–30 of 52 posts
Re: I don't want to work for a big company
#22We're a web development company in a 'company town' where everyone seems to work for a single Fortune 50 company. You think it'd be easy to hire developers away when you offer good pay and benefits, 4.5 day work weeks, flexible hours, casual dress code, and we buy you whatever hardware you want. We don't get a single qualified applicant. We use Ruby and Javascript, it's a ~ 25 person company so you can make a differe…
Re: I don't want to work for a big company
#23In a company with 10,000 employees and 5 C-level employees, not everybody gets a shot at a C-level position.
In a small company you might just get a position with high responsibility (if little status) that will get you ready for a high responsibility position with more status elsewhere.
I once worked at a web design shop where three salespeople who dressed normally, a few goth designers and programmers, and me who dressed "business goth" at the time. (I got along really well with everybody.) The production people got out their anger against the world by designing web sites with black backgrounds for everything. They would have put black text on a black background if it would have gotten past QA.
I've been contracting with many big corporations and I've found many where the people are a delight to work with -- I'd imagine these people are happy.
Remember also that big organizations are divided into smaller units which are further subdivided. These can have radically different cultures.
A major University I know of has many IT cultures.
The central IT organization is a disaster, although I know many people who've found comfortable places in it. If you try to get something done by going through official channels this has a 25-40% chance of working.
If you have a large rolodex of people you know there, however, you can guess who might know who to call to fix the problem, and eventually find that person, naming by name all of the people who helped you find them.
Then I get off the phone and I'm like "damn... I got this guy to change the firewall settings for the campus and how does he know who I am?"
I was dealing with another major IT organization and tried to compress the schedule using the same technique. Well, he called his boss, and his boss called my boss, and we got it done.
There are so many companies out there with so many parts that there's very possibly some position you could stand to do.
Re: I don't want to work for a big company
#24What makes startups seem great is the survivor bias. The shitty ones with MBA-style management and closed allocation tend to faceplant. The good ones grow and become less good gradually.
Also, many of the big-company perks mentioned in the OP don't exist.
Big companies actually don't provide better benefits than startups. Banks, for just one example, have pretty shitty health insurance due to misguided shareholder activism and cost-cutting. Also, it takes forever to move up in large companies. The upshot of that, though, is that you'll never have a 25-year-old manager-favorite ladyboy hipster douche barking orders at you (which I have seen demolish a startup or two).
Finally, large companies are not great at long-term projects. Those tend to be cut first when there are cuts, and in most companies, continuous cutting is now in favor over press-making layoffs. The best people in large companies (excluding companies with a real research presence, and those aren't paying salaries that would impress anyone on HN) want to work on immediate P&L stuff, not long-term efforts that lack job security and short-term promotability.
There is exactly one reason to work for big companies, and it can be substantial: lateral mobility. Your compensation won't go up fast, but if you can move to more interesting work under a manager the ability to protect, it can be a pretty damn good deal, because with a good manager it doesn't matter that you're in a mediocre company. You'll get to learn a lot (even if you won't have a major impact) and your work will be interesting enough (much more interesting than what most of these startups do) to provide jumping off points into credible side projects and, possibly, startups. It can be a great way to get a 5-year stint (there are plenty of HR Boomer-o-saurs who are still stuck up about "job hoppers") and a lot of time to learn.
The problem is that most companies make it a lot harder to move internally than they advertise. They have ridiculous "headcount" issues and it's almost impossible to move in most firms without a top-20% performance record... but impossible to get a top-20% review unless your manager sees you as having staying power. So you have to play dishonest political games, in most companies, to get the one big-company benefit (lateral mobility) that actually matters.
In fact, most companies are so fucked up on the matter of internal mobility that the only genuine time at which transfer's possible is shortly after a promotion, but managers rarely promote people who seem to have any interest in mobility.
Re: I don't want to work for a big company
#25We're a web development company in a 'company town' where everyone seems to work for a single Fortune 50 company. You think it'd be easy to hire developers away when you offer good pay and benefits, 4.5 day work weeks, flexible hours, casual dress code, and we buy you whatever hardware you want. We don't get a single qualified applicant. We use Ruby and Javascript, it's a ~ 25 person company so you can make a differe…
Defense contractors are a bit of an oddity, though. Its a quasi-government job, overall the most stable private sector employment, and has excellent benefits. Someone starting at my former employer out of undergrad today does have a reasonable chance of retiring from there. It seems like the workforce is slowly distilling down to those for whom such old-style employment is highly desirable.
[1] Its slowly changing, but it seems to be mostly B2B services, marketing and advertising shops.
Re: I don't want to work for a big company
#26I have worked as a software developer for a very large company (Ericsson) for nine years, and for smaller companies (Tilgin, Symsoft) for eleven years, and I too prefer small companies. The biggest difference for me is the impact ypou have. In a small company, your own contribution is a much larger part of the total output, and that is very satisfying. Frequently it also means faster turn-around time - what you do ge…
The three main criteria are "the product is software", "great colleagues" and "challenging problems". Small/large is not on the list, but maybe I should have added "having a high impact".
Re: I don't want to work for a big company
#27We're a web development company in a 'company town' where everyone seems to work for a single Fortune 50 company. You think it'd be easy to hire developers away when you offer good pay and benefits, 4.5 day work weeks, flexible hours, casual dress code, and we buy you whatever hardware you want. We don't get a single qualified applicant. We use Ruby and Javascript, it's a ~ 25 person company so you can make a differe…
Small companies aren't nirvana, and if there are few small companies, you're taking a big risk that you're stepping into an organization where the owner's dumb nephew will be made an SVP over you. In the valley, you jump ship. In the "company town", you need to uproot and move.
Re: I don't want to work for a big company
#28Sorry to break it to the OP, but most companies are shit. Big or small doesn't matter that much because all people (under the right conditions) have parasitic tendencies and power makes it worse. Good companies are easily less than 10 percent, and startups are no better. What makes startups seem great is the survivor bias. The shitty ones with MBA-style management and closed allocation tend to faceplant. The good one…
>In fact, most companies are so fucked up on the matter of internal mobility that the only genuine time at which transfer's possible is shortly after a promotion, but managers rarely promote people who seem to have any interest in mobility.
This was the driving reason I left my prior employer. I had no internal mobility without some sort of advocate, despite the large number of open reqs. At the end I got hit by the political double whammy of not having any support for a lateral transfer from my manager[1] and being on the 800lb gorilla project that was trying to draw people in from elsewhere at the time I was trying to leave. The company got away with shit like this, though, because most people thought that was just the way it was at large companies, and small companies were too risky and flaky.
[1] I even got labelled "disloyal" in the heat of the moment for expressing the desire once.
Re: I don't want to work for a big company
#29One thing I've noticed about large organizations is that they pay more. Pay is set in a structured way with regular pay rises, so you can just sit tight and watch it rise. Additionally, you can move around without leaving the company. Why is that important? Check the graph from the long term unemployment article[1]. Personally, I like to move every 2 years, so that's kind of important. I'm going to write about someth…
> The funny thing is that those left behind don't have an opportunity to get on that gravy train now. For what is worth, I noticed that also (not in the UK, but somewhere else in Europe). My ex-wife, a psychology major, managed to get hired into a big oil company doing procurement work (yes, they were that desperate at hiring people) around 2005-2006. Of course, in the meantime she has gathered a ton of experience an…
IMO this makes a strong case for working with small companies. Big companies are relatively risk averse and will look for external validation of the candidate - certifications, degrees, impressive prior experience, etc.
It's much easier for a young person lacking experience today to approach a small business and successfully pitch them on an internship or some contract work. A large corporation is too hamstrung by HR, by policy, and by its own approval chain, to take advantage of things like this.
Re: I don't want to work for a big company
#30Sorry to break it to the OP, but most companies are shit. Big or small doesn't matter that much because all people (under the right conditions) have parasitic tendencies and power makes it worse. Good companies are easily less than 10 percent, and startups are no better. What makes startups seem great is the survivor bias. The shitty ones with MBA-style management and closed allocation tend to faceplant. The good one…
> The problem is that most companies make it a lot harder to move internally than they advertise. They have ridiculous "headcount" issues and it's almost impossible to move in most firms without a top-20% performance record... but impossible to get a top-20% review unless your manager sees you as having staying power. So you have to play dishonest political games, in most companies, to get the one big-company benefit…
Here's probably more than you care to read on this topic. I just finished it this morning: http://michaelochurch.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/gervais-macle...
The short version, as pertains to what you experience, is that companies have (since Enron made it fashionable) included performance reviews in the transfer packet as a way of enabling managerial extortion (for the sake of project expediency, although it's unclear that it achieves that) and passive firing, reducing lawsuit risk. The passive-firing infrastructure is supposed to be there to make low-performers look objectively unwanted (lawsuit issues) but the headcount limitations and transfer blocks actually end up getting used against high-perfomers that their managers want to keep captive. Google (which has Enron-style performance reviews) has a well-documented problem with this.