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Defaulting to hire on credentials will put you out of business

carlosmiceli.com

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Re: Defaulting to hire on credentials will put you out of business

#21

Post by mindcrime »

TylerE wrote: post #18
mindcrime wrote: post #7

Interesting stuff. Personally I'm from the camp of people who don't put a lot of stock in credentials. I wouldn't go so far as to say they carry no weight, but I certainly don't weight them particularly heavily, especially if I have anything else whatsoever to go on. And to the extent that I do care about, say, a college degree, I definitely am not of the mindset that "You have to have gone to an Ivy League school, o…

Are you hiring? I'm in your neck of the woods, looking for new opportunities, and your problem space looks interesting.

Sorta, not exactly, maybe. It's complicated. :-) Shoot me an email and we can chat... prhodes (at) fogbeam (dot) com

Re: Defaulting to hire on credentials will put you out of business

#22

Post by randomdata »

riggins wrote: post #8
ChuckMcM wrote: post #5

The one piece of data that having a college degree communicates is that the person with it did something they didn't have to do, it took longer than a few months, and it involved a wide variety of tasks. As such its a useful way to prove you can do something that takes a long time to do. I agree however that there are people who haven't chosen to do that who have shown that ability in other ways. And there are people…

In a similar vein. GED recipients have been less successful than originally anticipated. Social scientists were surprised because these are people who are intelligent enough to pass the curriculum but they weren't achieving greater success than other dropouts. In trying to understand the gap, what they focused in on is that life success isn't just intelligence, its soft skills like stick-to-it-iveness, willpower, con…

> In trying to understand the gap, what they focused in on is that life success isn't just intelligence, its soft skills like stick-to-it-iveness, willpower, concentration, etc.

Do you have more information about these studies? I have always assumed that to be true. When you look at successful people, it is the indicator that stands out most often. I'd love to look at the formal research.

Re: Defaulting to hire on credentials will put you out of business

#23

Post by gte910h »

randomdata wrote: post #19
jspiros wrote: post #2

I didn't go to college, though I grew up in a college town and eventually even worked for a while as the college's lead web developer. I've been developing software professionally for customers and clients since I was 14 (currently 25; so, for 11 years). Once, when I was applying for a job, I ran into someone with the same perspective as Bryan Caplan's from this article. I had made it through a few interviews and tes…

I received a similar lecture from a former employer, except it was by email, after I had handed in my resignation. He wanted to make it quite known that I wasn't qualified to work in the industry (even though I worked for him in the industry just fine for several years and I was the one leaving the job on my own accord?) and that I wouldn't be able to find another job without a degree. Even though I deep down knew ev…

Emailing people who are leaving more than a nice to have worked with you or let's connect on linked in always seems like a giant lose lose proposition.

Re: Defaulting to hire on credentials will put you out of business

#24

Post by gte910h »

afterburner wrote: post #20
sscalia wrote: post #3

HR departments are largely the problem. Even if you have a savvy, dynamic, progressive team in a large company - looking for coding/sales/marketing savants - HR will typically not even pass candidates resumes if they don't have a BA/BS etc.

I'm always amazed how much HR filters before it even gets to the relevant manager who actually needs the hire (and knows what he/she needs from them).

I'm always amazed by the firehose of COMPLETELY unqualified people who apply to everything. Filtering IS needed usually.

Re: Defaulting to hire on credentials will put you out of business

#25

Post by protomyth »

afterburner wrote: post #20
sscalia wrote: post #3

HR departments are largely the problem. Even if you have a savvy, dynamic, progressive team in a large company - looking for coding/sales/marketing savants - HR will typically not even pass candidates resumes if they don't have a BA/BS etc.

I'm always amazed how much HR filters before it even gets to the relevant manager who actually needs the hire (and knows what he/she needs from them).

The worst HR filter I've ever head came from Microsoft somewhere between 1990-92. There recruiter informed a group of CompSci students gathered to hear about careers at Microsoft, that people graduating from our school were only allowed to apply for jobs in customer support. I think the professors were more ticked off than the students.

Re: Defaulting to hire on credentials will put you out of business

#27

Post by ambiate »

jspiros wrote: post #2

I didn't go to college, though I grew up in a college town and eventually even worked for a while as the college's lead web developer. I've been developing software professionally for customers and clients since I was 14 (currently 25; so, for 11 years). Once, when I was applying for a job, I ran into someone with the same perspective as Bryan Caplan's from this article. I had made it through a few interviews and tes…

I have 30 hours remaining in my Bioinformatics degree. I cannot stomach the 'pre-med grind'/cost involved in finishing the degree.

My work was generous and allowed me to turn my internship into a full-time job. Yet, everyday I am told I need to finish my degree and move away from this job by coworkers.

I get to ship on average every two weeks, it is wonderful. I have time to toy and tinker on the side.

My only fear is first for blame, then, to fire. I know if I ever was to venture off, the tone would turn from "we're so grateful to have you" to "you'll never make it in this world" in a heartbeat.

Re: Defaulting to hire on credentials will put you out of business

#28

Post by [deleted] »

randomdata wrote: post #19
jspiros wrote: post #2

I didn't go to college, though I grew up in a college town and eventually even worked for a while as the college's lead web developer. I've been developing software professionally for customers and clients since I was 14 (currently 25; so, for 11 years). Once, when I was applying for a job, I ran into someone with the same perspective as Bryan Caplan's from this article. I had made it through a few interviews and tes…

I received a similar lecture from a former employer, except it was by email, after I had handed in my resignation. He wanted to make it quite known that I wasn't qualified to work in the industry (even though I worked for him in the industry just fine for several years and I was the one leaving the job on my own accord?) and that I wouldn't be able to find another job without a degree. Even though I deep down knew ev…

[deleted]

Re: Defaulting to hire on credentials will put you out of business

#29

Post by afterburner »

protomyth wrote: post #25
afterburner wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always amazed how much HR filters before it even gets to the relevant manager who actually needs the hire (and knows what he/she needs from them).

The worst HR filter I've ever head came from Microsoft somewhere between 1990-92. There recruiter informed a group of CompSci students gathered to hear about careers at Microsoft, that people graduating from our school were only allowed to apply for jobs in customer support. I think the professors were more ticked off than the students.

wow...

Re: Defaulting to hire on credentials will put you out of business

#30

Post by InclinedPlane »

I've interviewed a fair number of people for tech positions over the years and one of the fastest lessons I learned was that the correlation between a CS degree on the resume and technical ability is basically non-existent. More so, among the best devs and engineers I have worked with one was a physicist by training and several had no college degree whatsoever. Credentialism is a sucker's game, if you fall victim to it you'll be at a competitive hiring disadvantage. Hiring is tough, but it's also one of the most important things you can do as a company, make sure to put the right amount of effort into it.

P.S. As the article points out, falling victim to the credentialism trap as an employee is also a sign of conformity. Some companies want that, but hiring extremely talented non-conformists is an easy and excellent way to kick the competition's ass in many cases. The future of technology is almost never created by conformists.

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