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FBI Defends Disruptive Raids on Texas Data Centers

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Re: FBI Defends Disruptive Raids on Texas Data Centers

#21

Post by plaes »

njharman wrote: post #2

That wasn't a defense, it was an acknowledgment of incompetence. It looks like the FBI is due for a Judge delivered smack down like the SS got for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_Games,_Inc._v._Un...

  > FBI spokesman White says the equipment seizures were 
  > necessary.

  > "My understanding is that the way these things are hooked 
  > up is that they're interconnected to each other," he says.
Well, talk about competence (err... the lack of it). I really hope they won't come to pick up my machine, because it is also interconnected...

Re: FBI Defends Disruptive Raids on Texas Data Centers

#22

Post by tesseract »

patio11 wrote: post #13
patrickg-zill wrote: post #3

How many companies are reading this and wondering if their next datacenter project should involve servers located outside US jurisdiction?

Given the relative incidence of FBI raids to datacenters you might as well pick your server location based on perceived threat of meteorite strikes.

A location under a mountain in Kinakuta would be an ideal safeguard against both.

Re: FBI Defends Disruptive Raids on Texas Data Centers

#23

Post by SystemOut »

wheels wrote: post #16
SystemOut wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you seriously think that other countries have more respect for rule of law or knowledge of data centers than the FBI? It's not that I have any respect for the FBI when it comes to how they have handled this or other investigations but I have a hard time believing that this couldn't easily happen in any other country you might choose to house your servers in. What this case tells me if I'm running a business or in…

A coordinated raid of multiple sites inside of the US wouldn't be that hard. A coordinated raid spanning multiple countries would be hard enough that you'd have to suspected of Really, Really, Bad Things for it to come off.

That wasn't my point. If you're suspected of enough that they are specifically targeting everywhere you're at and/or seizing your off-site DR assets you've most likely done something bad enough to warrant that closer look.

Re: FBI Defends Disruptive Raids on Texas Data Centers

#24

Post by swombat »

njharman wrote: post #2

That wasn't a defense, it was an acknowledgment of incompetence. It looks like the FBI is due for a Judge delivered smack down like the SS got for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_Games,_Inc._v._Un...

It looks like the FBI is due for a Judge delivered smack down like the SS got for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jackson_Games,_Inc._v._Un...

At $250k? I don't think so. Disrupting, and potentially bankrupting, hundreds of businesses... that sounds more like somewhere in the hundreds of millions, or potentially low billions.

Importantly, the US govt now needs to convince the rest of the world that this will never happen again. We've got servers hosted in the US. Should we move them? Are we safe from this kind of indiscriminate abuse of force?

Re: FBI Defends Disruptive Raids on Texas Data Centers

#25

Post by patrickg-zill »

SystemOut wrote: post #23
wheels wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A coordinated raid of multiple sites inside of the US wouldn't be that hard. A coordinated raid spanning multiple countries would be hard enough that you'd have to suspected of Really, Really, Bad Things for it to come off.

That wasn't my point. If you're suspected of enough that they are specifically targeting everywhere you're at and/or seizing your off-site DR assets you've most likely done something bad enough to warrant that closer look.

Wow ... that is an attitude you should re-examine.

Re: FBI Defends Disruptive Raids on Texas Data Centers

#26

Post by grouchyOldGuy »

This wasn't imcompetence--it was thuggery. They use the same "shock and awe" tactics as the police and military--crush your opponent with overwhelming force so that everyone else will be terrified of you and cower before you. This is a deliberate tactic on their part. All federal LEOs work this way--DEA, FBI, etc.

Re: FBI Defends Disruptive Raids on Texas Data Centers

#28

Post by CWuestefeld »

sangaya wrote: post #11
stcredzero wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like there's a new branch of law or law enforcement that needs to be developed. People who have some expertise in IT need to advise law enforcement about raids like this.

One issue with this is that all of the FBI raids that go well and consist of competent decision making regardless of IT knowledge involvement will never make the news. No one wants to read that a raid went off without a hitch. Or that the field agents sent in to raid a data center were competent enough that no network other than the suspect's was interrupted. Those stories don't make the news. * Admission of possible…

It may be true that many, even most (although I doubt it), law enforcement agents dealing with IT are competent. But that's not good enough.

The cornerstone to the philosophy of our legal system is that the USA should be a place where someone who is acting legally need never worry about being a victim of law enforcement. That's why we guarantee a jury trial, require that anyone arrested be read Miranda rights, forbid searches without warrants (and enforce the Exclusionary Rule), etc.

Saying that someone implicated in a crime (or more importantly, someone whose server happens to sit next to one owned by someone implicated) will probably not suffer at the hands of incompetent agents is nowhere good enough.

It's far more important that no innocent be persecuted than that no bad guy slip through the net. I will not have it on my conscience that the government, acting in my name with powers I've ceded to it, has violated the human rights of someone that was no danger to me.

Re: FBI Defends Disruptive Raids on Texas Data Centers

#29

Post by raintrees »

If Mike Faulkner truly was not involved with the alleged illegal actions, he and his family ought to do well, living off of a considerable settlement from the FBI. Hopefully enough to start a new business or two...

Unfortunately, that ultimately means I, as a tax payer, will be funding it. Sigh.

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