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Why Startups Should Choose Canada Over Silicon Valley

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Re: Why Startups Should Choose Canada Over Silicon Valley

#21

Post by derefr »

kevingadd wrote: post #18
fn wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enter the Canada Startup Visa, released last week: http://venturebeat.com/2013/04/02/silicon-valley-north-canad... http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/business/start-up/ind...

That's incredible! Thanks for the link :) EDIT: Bah, too bad they demand proof of secondary education. Sucks for people who couldn't afford college...

The same problem occurs for a Canadian with no college degree (but tons of freelance dev experience) wishing to move to SV. Anyone here know a good way to get around that?

Some details: I took two years of university so far, but ran out of money to keep going. I'm now living month-to-month (averaging about "feed myself and pay rent for a room") doing severely underpaid web-app development (think ELance rates.) Apparently my skillset (Ruby, Erlang, systems-level/embedded C, Clojure, some Cocoa Touch experience) would be making me at least $100K/yr in SV, but nobody wants it up here in Vancouver; it's all ASP shops and C++ game-dev, and most of the gigs I do get end up being in PHP, even though it's not my forte.

I really don't want to spend however-many more years it would take to pay my way through school at this rate, struggling out in the software "hinterlands", when a better life is just one border-crossing away.

And technically, If I'm asking for a pony, I don't really want to get hired by a Microsoft or a Google and only work in the US for them; I want to go to the US because I want to participate in SV startup culture, which both includes working for a startup, and starting my own. It seems like that possibility is just locked out for anyone but permanent residents of the US, though.

Re: Why Startups Should Choose Canada Over Silicon Valley

#22

Post by jsingleton »

vecinu wrote: post #5

I have a few problems with this article, namely the comparisons drawn between The Valley and Canada. I am currently a Canadian citizen, working in San Francisco at a company that moved from Vancouver many years ago. The author seems to be comparing the Bay Area to the entirety of Canada. Canada is not a small area, a city or a state. It is an entire 'continent' spanning multiple provinces with very different laws and…

Agreed. A lot of people seem to be mentioning Toronto (never been) but can anyone comment on the tech/startup scene in Vancouver (loved it but it seems very small)?

Re: Why Startups Should Choose Canada Over Silicon Valley

#23

Post by imack »

On the main point of the article, I do agree that a lot of ideas fly higher in San Francisco than other parts of North America. I see "Highlight" as a good example of this where an app finds a lot of early adopters in a small area but it becomes harder for that kind of ubiquity to happen somewhere people aren't as fascinated by new technology like people outside of the valley are.

I believe that a number of communities like this end up being "geek ghettos" on account of this.

Re: Why Startups Should Choose Canada Over Silicon Valley

#24

Post by 3pt14159 »

strebler wrote: post #20

Rose coloured glasses. You want to startup in Canada? Either a) have access to network with money, or b) bootstrap like there's no tomorrow. Investors in Canada have an appetite for risk somewhere in the neighbourhood of "mutual fund vs GIC" levels. For someone with Silicon Valley connections, fine it could work, but this is not good general advice. Even iNovia, which is probably the most forward looking VC in the co…

This man here speaks the truth. Without revenue, it is easier to get a $30k grant than it is to find an angel investor willing to invest for the same amount. (Source: I raised a $30k grant in about 3 meetings and 5 hours of paper work. I also spent about 6 months with two idiot "angel investors" from Ryerson Angel Network when I was young and dumb and didn't close a dime. One guy said he wanted to invest but sheepishly said "I'll have to ask my wife first, since it is $10k". More like RRSP investors. The only angel investor in Toronto that is worth anything is the one guy from maple that told me that nobody in the city has any money and to just get on bootstrapping.)

It is even easier to raise $800k in grant money too. Depending on your startup, the CMF may think that your startup is in fact an "emerging digital platform" that has promise. Most startups I know that raised this type of capital did so from Americans.

If you are a Canadian angel that disagrees, feel free to talk to me. I know a bunch of pre-revenue startups that are cool, but you won't ever hear of because they've all given up hoping to raise Canadian cash.

Re: Why Startups Should Choose Canada Over Silicon Valley

#25

Post by dquail »

akg_67 wrote: post #19
vecinu wrote: post #5

I have a few problems with this article, namely the comparisons drawn between The Valley and Canada. I am currently a Canadian citizen, working in San Francisco at a company that moved from Vancouver many years ago. The author seems to be comparing the Bay Area to the entirety of Canada. Canada is not a small area, a city or a state. It is an entire 'continent' spanning multiple provinces with very different laws and…

"I don't see the same enthusiasm towards tech and startup in Toronto that I see here in The Valley." Having tried establishing my startup in Toronto before, I fully agree with your statement. I know at least 6 more people who got frustrated trying to start tech companies in Toronto/Waterloo and finally gave up and moved to US/valley. Most Canadian govt funding programs for startups (I tried) are for politicians to ha…

The great Canadian startups I know don't look incredibly highly of government programs (namely SR&ED and IRAP). They're great, but can be distracting, taking you away from building value in your startup and into filling out meaningless forms. That said, free money is free money, and I've seen successful startups (that aren't politically connected) leverage these programs without being distracted.

Re: Why Startups Should Choose Canada Over Silicon Valley

#26

Post by stormbrew »

derefr wrote: post #21
kevingadd wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's incredible! Thanks for the link :) EDIT: Bah, too bad they demand proof of secondary education. Sucks for people who couldn't afford college...

The same problem occurs for a Canadian with no college degree (but tons of freelance dev experience) wishing to move to SV. Anyone here know a good way to get around that? Some details: I took two years of university so far, but ran out of money to keep going. I'm now living month-to-month (averaging about "feed myself and pay rent for a room") doing severely underpaid web-app development (think ELance rates.) Appare…

If by diploma you mean a 2 year (which is usually what it means in Canada), it won't be enough on its own.

You can actually get an exemption if you can demonstrate equivalent knowledge and a career progression towards it. What that usually means is having a professor of your field vouch for your knowledge and being able to prove work history for 3 or 4 years of each of the four years of university you didn't take. A two year diploma may cut that amount in half, but I wouldn't necessarily count on it.

If your work history is hard to prove you may want to try other types of visas. TN-1s aren't so difficult, but re-entry can apparently be a pain. You can also get an equivalent to an H-1B by working for a Canadian subsidiary (of, say, MS or Google) for about a year and then getting a transfer to the American head office. I believe these are much easier to get.

And then there's the traditional ways, like being sponsored by family etc. Unfortunately, no matter what, a degree will make it much much easier.

Re: Why Startups Should Choose Canada Over Silicon Valley

#27

Post by derefr »

stormbrew wrote: post #26
derefr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same problem occurs for a Canadian with no college degree (but tons of freelance dev experience) wishing to move to SV. Anyone here know a good way to get around that? Some details: I took two years of university so far, but ran out of money to keep going. I'm now living month-to-month (averaging about "feed myself and pay rent for a room") doing severely underpaid web-app development (think ELance rates.) Appare…

If by diploma you mean a 2 year (which is usually what it means in Canada), it won't be enough on its own. You can actually get an exemption if you can demonstrate equivalent knowledge and a career progression towards it. What that usually means is having a professor of your field vouch for your knowledge and being able to prove work history for 3 or 4 years of each of the four years of university you didn't take. A…

> If by diploma you mean a 2 year (which is usually what it means in Canada), it won't be enough on its own.

I really did mean a four-year; I just said "diploma" because "degree" implies education was involved. The diploma is the piece of paper. :)

> prove work history for 3 or 4 years

Does that mean employment history? I don't have much of that. Completed contracts, certainly, but I've not been "on payroll" anywhere for more than six months at a time.

Re: Why Startups Should Choose Canada Over Silicon Valley

#28

Post by viame »

akg_67 wrote: post #19
vecinu wrote: post #5

I have a few problems with this article, namely the comparisons drawn between The Valley and Canada. I am currently a Canadian citizen, working in San Francisco at a company that moved from Vancouver many years ago. The author seems to be comparing the Bay Area to the entirety of Canada. Canada is not a small area, a city or a state. It is an entire 'continent' spanning multiple provinces with very different laws and…

"I don't see the same enthusiasm towards tech and startup in Toronto that I see here in The Valley." Having tried establishing my startup in Toronto before, I fully agree with your statement. I know at least 6 more people who got frustrated trying to start tech companies in Toronto/Waterloo and finally gave up and moved to US/valley. Most Canadian govt funding programs for startups (I tried) are for politicians to ha…

Thanks for sharing your info and experiences. Very helpful to know for the future.

Re: Why Startups Should Choose Canada Over Silicon Valley

#29

Post by senorprogrammer »

jsingleton wrote: post #22
vecinu wrote: post #5

I have a few problems with this article, namely the comparisons drawn between The Valley and Canada. I am currently a Canadian citizen, working in San Francisco at a company that moved from Vancouver many years ago. The author seems to be comparing the Bay Area to the entirety of Canada. Canada is not a small area, a city or a state. It is an entire 'continent' spanning multiple provinces with very different laws and…

Agreed. A lot of people seem to be mentioning Toronto (never been) but can anyone comment on the tech/startup scene in Vancouver (loved it but it seems very small)?

There's a lot of development talent and ambition in Vancouver, and a healthy chunk of it not at all related to the video game or movie industry; there are quite a number of legitimate start-ups going on, most of them seemingly located down in Gastown.

The biggest barrier to start-ups in Vancouver is probably investment availability. There's a few active angels and VCs but you can count them on one hand. The majority who want in seem to be incredibly risk-adverse, treating a 50k angel investment as though it were the last gold bullion on earth.

On top of that, Vancouver is very lifestyle-driven, especially once spring and summer roll around. The mountains and ocean are seductive (that's why I moved out here), and make it seem like insanity to spend 16 hrs a day toiling in front of the computer when there's an entire playground out there.

So, if I were going to start a high-energy start-up, Vancouver is not where I'd pick first.

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