California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving • Hacker News Board

Re: California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving

#21

Post by Evbn » Sat, Apr 06, 2013, 6:52 PM UTC

Cushman wrote: post #11

kevingadd wrote: post #2

Are paper maps illegal too? What about having someone in the passenger seat check the map and then tell me what to do? Can they hold the phone in front of my face for me so I can see the map? I honestly just wish they'd settle for a simple, concrete description of what's acceptable while driving and what isn't. Like, you must always keep your eyes on the road, or you must always have both hands on the wheel, or whate…

Don't worry, the days of this sort of thing are numbered. There is exactly one way it is acceptable to operate a motor vehicle: Input a destination for the computer to drive to, and release the controls. Anything less is a tragedy that hasn't happened yet.

You are putting a lot of faith in technology that doesn't exist nearly how you imagine it.

Re: California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving

#22

Post by Evbn » Sat, Apr 06, 2013, 6:54 PM UTC

MRSallee wrote: post #18

cryptoz wrote: post #9

The only way forward to a sane future is to ban all humans driving all cars. Increase funding and scale of self-driving car efforts to get them on the road as quickly (and safely) as possible, then ban all the humans. I can see no other reasonable end to this insanity. 30,000 to 40,000 Americans die every year in car accidents that are pretty much all human error. Ban the human drivers.

I like driving / motorcycle riding too much to agree with this, but it really is ridiculous that some people are afraid of computers driving on public roads. When I see a Google self-driving car on the road, I am relieved.

The Google cars aren't really so powerful yet. They defer to humans in anything but perfect highway conditions or a completely closed area with other cars banned. Without an accurate map, they can't drive. I think they don't even change lanes independently.

Re: California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving

#23

Post by Swannie » Sat, Apr 06, 2013, 6:55 PM UTC

viveutvivas wrote: post #3

Just ban "reckless driving" and be done with it. Oh wait.

I can drive perfectly "non-recklessly" whilst operating a phone, etc.

However, put a dangerous situation in front of me, and I'm going to be in trouble if I was not paying full attention.

It's much better to provide a disincentive for bad behaviour, than attempt to prove that this bad behaviour was a contributing factor in an accident.

Much like speeding.

Re: California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving

#24

Post by Evbn » Sat, Apr 06, 2013, 6:55 PM UTC

exue wrote: post #4

I guess this invalidates what I've been used to for the last 4 years about using phone mapping. [1] I've always wondered what would happen if a police officer thought you were texting but you were actually using a GPS, or changing a song on your iPod (does it matter if it has cellular connection or not?) Presumably we would need to exclude dash-mounted or built-in GPS manipulation as well. This makes everything with…

Built in GPS should probably disable input when the car is moving, to discourage distractions.

Re: California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving

#25

Post by Cushman » Sat, Apr 06, 2013, 6:57 PM UTC

Evbn wrote: post #21

Cushman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't worry, the days of this sort of thing are numbered. There is exactly one way it is acceptable to operate a motor vehicle: Input a destination for the computer to drive to, and release the controls. Anything less is a tragedy that hasn't happened yet.

You are putting a lot of faith in technology that doesn't exist nearly how you imagine it.

I feel pretty comfortable putting my faith in experimental technology rather than average human beings.

Nothing against human beings of course, just when it comes to operating motor vehicles it ain't much to beat.

Re: California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving

#26

Post by Cushman » Sat, Apr 06, 2013, 7:05 PM UTC

Evbn wrote: post #22

MRSallee wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like driving / motorcycle riding too much to agree with this, but it really is ridiculous that some people are afraid of computers driving on public roads. When I see a Google self-driving car on the road, I am relieved.

The Google cars aren't really so powerful yet. They defer to humans in anything but perfect highway conditions or a completely closed area with other cars banned. Without an accurate map, they can't drive. I think they don't even change lanes independently.

> They defer to humans in anything but perfect highway conditions

What do you mean by this? The Google car can negotiate stop signs properly, for example. It's limited to good conditions in a lot of ways, but it's no train.

Re: California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving

#27

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Apr 06, 2013, 7:10 PM UTC

charonn0 wrote: post #13

kevingadd wrote: post #2

Are paper maps illegal too? What about having someone in the passenger seat check the map and then tell me what to do? Can they hold the phone in front of my face for me so I can see the map? I honestly just wish they'd settle for a simple, concrete description of what's acceptable while driving and what isn't. Like, you must always keep your eyes on the road, or you must always have both hands on the wheel, or whate…

> I honestly just wish they'd settle for a simple, concrete description of what's acceptable while driving and what isn't It is unacceptable to divide your attention when hurtling down the road in a ton and a half of steel.

[deleted]

Re: California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving

#28

Post by geon » Sat, Apr 06, 2013, 7:11 PM UTC

hkmurakami wrote: post #14

kevingadd wrote: post #2

Are paper maps illegal too? What about having someone in the passenger seat check the map and then tell me what to do? Can they hold the phone in front of my face for me so I can see the map? I honestly just wish they'd settle for a simple, concrete description of what's acceptable while driving and what isn't. Like, you must always keep your eyes on the road, or you must always have both hands on the wheel, or whate…

I read big physical books in the car, while driving, when at a red light. I wonder if I'll get a ticket for this.

If you are at a red light, you aren't driving.

Re: California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving

#29

Post by mtviewdave » Sat, Apr 06, 2013, 7:21 PM UTC

charonn0 wrote: post #13

kevingadd wrote: post #2

Are paper maps illegal too? What about having someone in the passenger seat check the map and then tell me what to do? Can they hold the phone in front of my face for me so I can see the map? I honestly just wish they'd settle for a simple, concrete description of what's acceptable while driving and what isn't. Like, you must always keep your eyes on the road, or you must always have both hands on the wheel, or whate…

> I honestly just wish they'd settle for a simple, concrete description of what's acceptable while driving and what isn't It is unacceptable to divide your attention when hurtling down the road in a ton and a half of steel.

>> I honestly just wish they'd settle for a simple, concrete description of what's acceptable while driving and what isn't

>It is unacceptable to divide your attention when hurtling down the road in a ton and a half of steel.

That's not an answer.

Of course people should pay attention while driving. But the question is: what should the law be? Should looking at paper maps while driving be illegal? Changing the radio station? Eating?

In the late '80s a driver killed 4 bicyclists on two-land highway outside of Silicon Valley (CA-152) when she bent down while driving to retrieve a fallen cassette tape. Should we ban music systems in cars?

The problem with taking banning "distractions" to its logical conclusion is that we'd end up with an absurd law that the people would never accept. The law, and driving culture, has always accepted some level of distraction. If that needs to change, then we need to decide how, and the advocates for any particular position need to advocate for their position, including addressing their position's logical inconsistencies.

Re: California Court Bans Checking Smartphone Maps While Driving

#30

Post by gamblor956 » Sat, Apr 06, 2013, 7:24 PM UTC

Just a clarification guys:

In California, the decisions of the state appelate courts (for levels below California's Supreme Court) are elective. That means, any lower court in the state can select to follow the decisions of any appellate state court. In practice, this means that the decision potentially applies to all of California, or to none of it. Moreover, consistency is not required among the choice of precedence among lower courts, so a judge could theoretically select to follow the law of one appellate court in one case, and the law of an differing appellate court in another case (but in practice is rare, since it is a potentially actionable cause for dismissal from the bench).

The decision does not bar the use of GPS for navigation...it's still okay to have it on, showing you which way to go.

The decision specifically relates to the interactive use of a GPS device or software while driving. Meaning, i.e,. that you are inputting data with your hands while driving. Such acts were deemed to fall under the distracted driving laws. *And they're right: you should not be interacting with your screen while your car is not parked.

See the case below at the direct link, rather than the multiple blogspam links: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/680893-jad13-02.html