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How many 10K hours do you have left?

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Re: How many 10K hours do you have left?

#21

Post by yaddayadda »

anthonycerra wrote: post #11

This is a cool brain hack in that it uses math to convince you that you're not too old to become a master at something. One issue I have with the 10,000 hour rule in general is this: there are approximately 2,088 hours in a work-year not counting overtime. To achieve mastery in your profession would then take less than 5 years. Most professions don't consider someone an expert 5 years into their careers. So does that…

In addition to deliberate practice, there's also the relationship of time when practiced. Here's a good layperson's explanation - http://calnewport.com/blog/2011/11/11/if-youre-busy-youre-do...

Re: How many 10K hours do you have left?

#23

Post by incision »

kylescheele wrote: post #12
sireat wrote: post #9

Sadly, the problem is that the older you does not get the same out of 10k hours of deliberate practice than the younger you. Let's take chess: 10k hours of deliberate practice in your teen years will make you a master level player (and possibly near GM caliber if you think Polgar experiment was not a fluke). There are no known instances of someone starting to play chess after age of 30 and getting near GM. Conversely…

I'll agree with the idea that it's harder for the older you to master something than it is for the younger you, but I don't think it has to do with physiological reasons. I think it has to do with things like time, commitments, obligations, and fears. When you're young, you have more time, less commitments and obligations (family, job, etc.), and generally less fears (if I screw this up, it's fine because I'm 17). As…

Well said.

I think this discussion [1] from other day is relevant.

Basically, getting old and taking on more responsibilities doesn't necessarily have to mean becoming less productive as long as you can adapt your strategy and habits.

1: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5488037

Re: How many 10K hours do you have left?

#25

Post by beeffective »

anthonycerra wrote: post #11

This is a cool brain hack in that it uses math to convince you that you're not too old to become a master at something. One issue I have with the 10,000 hour rule in general is this: there are approximately 2,088 hours in a work-year not counting overtime. To achieve mastery in your profession would then take less than 5 years. Most professions don't consider someone an expert 5 years into their careers. So does that…

As others have said, those 2088 hours a year in my job aren't deliberate practice, and as a software engineer, I spend about 2 hours a day or less doing software development. However, after 8 years of professional software development, I'm finally reaching a point of not only being highly skilled, but also establishing a track record of influence and communication due to my increasing confidence. The project experience and successes have been a huge help, but only when I spend the mental energy to engage in my "meetings" and "email" that relate to my new projects.

In other words, I can see the benefit of taking all aspects of my job seriously, even meetings, because they are the backbone of influencing others on your ideas/design as well as fully understanding all aspects of a project.

Re: How many 10K hours do you have left?

#26

Post by empthought »

sireat wrote: post #9

Sadly, the problem is that the older you does not get the same out of 10k hours of deliberate practice than the younger you. Let's take chess: 10k hours of deliberate practice in your teen years will make you a master level player (and possibly near GM caliber if you think Polgar experiment was not a fluke). There are no known instances of someone starting to play chess after age of 30 and getting near GM. Conversely…

Julia Child didn't learn gourmet cooking until her late 30s.

I think part of the trouble is that that the definition of "mastery" is so fluid. In chess, is "grandmaster" really the bar you want to set? Why not just "master" or even "expert?"

In another area, some percentage of medical doctors receive their degrees after age 40. Is that achievement + licensure sufficient to call it "mastery?"

Re: How many 10K hours do you have left?

#27

Post by vwinsyee »

kylescheele wrote: post #12
sireat wrote: post #9

Sadly, the problem is that the older you does not get the same out of 10k hours of deliberate practice than the younger you. Let's take chess: 10k hours of deliberate practice in your teen years will make you a master level player (and possibly near GM caliber if you think Polgar experiment was not a fluke). There are no known instances of someone starting to play chess after age of 30 and getting near GM. Conversely…

I'll agree with the idea that it's harder for the older you to master something than it is for the younger you, but I don't think it has to do with physiological reasons. I think it has to do with things like time, commitments, obligations, and fears. When you're young, you have more time, less commitments and obligations (family, job, etc.), and generally less fears (if I screw this up, it's fine because I'm 17). As…

I agree that less time and more obligations does make learning new things more difficult later in life. But there's also evidence that fluid intelligence [1] peaks in young adulthood and declines with older age.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_and_crystallized_intellig... : "This decline may be related to local atrophy of the brain in the right cerebellum. Other researchers have suggested that a lack of practice, along with age-related changes in the brain may contribute to the decline."

Re: How many 10K hours do you have left?

#28

Post by ekm2 »

vwinsyee wrote: post #27
kylescheele wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll agree with the idea that it's harder for the older you to master something than it is for the younger you, but I don't think it has to do with physiological reasons. I think it has to do with things like time, commitments, obligations, and fears. When you're young, you have more time, less commitments and obligations (family, job, etc.), and generally less fears (if I screw this up, it's fine because I'm 17). As…

I agree that less time and more obligations does make learning new things more difficult later in life. But there's also evidence that fluid intelligence [1] peaks in young adulthood and declines with older age. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluid_and_crystallized_intellig... : "This decline may be related to local atrophy of the brain in the right cerebellum. Other researchers have suggested that a lack of practi…

And there is also evidence that you can increase you fluid intelligence[1] [1]http://www.pnas.org/content/105/19/6791.full

Re: How many 10K hours do you have left?

#29

Post by watsonc73 »

empthought wrote: post #26
sireat wrote: post #9

Sadly, the problem is that the older you does not get the same out of 10k hours of deliberate practice than the younger you. Let's take chess: 10k hours of deliberate practice in your teen years will make you a master level player (and possibly near GM caliber if you think Polgar experiment was not a fluke). There are no known instances of someone starting to play chess after age of 30 and getting near GM. Conversely…

Julia Child didn't learn gourmet cooking until her late 30s. I think part of the trouble is that that the definition of "mastery" is so fluid. In chess, is "grandmaster" really the bar you want to set? Why not just "master" or even "expert?" In another area, some percentage of medical doctors receive their degrees after age 40. Is that achievement + licensure sufficient to call it "mastery?"

Colonel Sanders has to exemplify the late bloomer. From odd job to odd job, he was broke at age 65 before he franchised out what is now KFC. 10k+ hours of frying chicken without anything to show for it. His decision to sell on his recipe to restaurant owners changed all that.

Lesson: Master a skill that you can franchise and protect.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2E0jMx0AqE

Re: How many 10K hours do you have left?

#30

Post by samegreatsleeve »

Why do you guys buy into this 10k hours bullshit?

The 10k hours claim is utter nonsense on the most basic level. How exactly is "one skill" defined? There is no such thing as "one skill." Every skill, field, whatever is a highly complex amalgam of countless sub-skills. How do you determine the extent of the "one skill" that you're devoting to?

Let's say you want to master 18th century history, defined as achieving a skill/knowledge level of X in that field. Does this take 10k hours? Why not 20k? Why not 5k? How can anyone assume that just because 18th century history has been defined as a particular "skill" that reaching some skill level X will take 10k hours?

If you instead choose to master early 18th century history from 1700-1730 so that you know the years 1700-1730 just as well as the 1700-1800 specialist, does it now take you only 3K hours instead of 10K?

Does any of this math make any sense at all?

Since the concept of "one skill" is utterly absurd nonsense that is completely undefinable, and the concept of "mastery" is equally undefinable and meaningless, this whole 10k meme is nothing but marketing bullshit of the kind that Gladwell mass produces in his shitty vapid books.

Gladwell is a hack of the highest order. He has never said anything meaningful. This 10k hour meme is just another marketing turd he shit out to mystify and flatter the dumb middle classes who read poppy trash like Gladwell so they can call themselves literate.

Fucking disgrace that people take this seriously

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