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I'm tired

andymoore.ca

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Re: I'm tired

#21

Post by anaheim »

jason_slack wrote: post #4

Wow. That male at the table needs to have his balls removed for such a statement. He may be male, but he isn't a man. A real man wouldn't behave like that. Edit: OK, maybe having his balls removed is excessive. He is mocking a womens anatomy and the reverse would make him feel good. i.e saying he got into GDC because of his testicles isn't the same type of insult as the female getting in for her "tits". So this isn't…

Why do you say that? Would you also say a female needs to "have her vagina removed" if she commented about a male developer's "award-winning biceps"?

You have to understand that objectification can go both ways; if you want to curb it, you have to be equally strict in all cases.

Re: I'm tired

#22

Post by SkittlesNTwix »

tjbiddle wrote: post #10

Why is this even a topic anymore? I don't understand how this can even enter into someone's mind as an acceptable remark to make. This is the 21st century - if you don't treat women with respect and as equals then please, don't show your face in public anymore until you learn normal human etiquette.

It wasn't enough for me to simply upvote the above comment. Please consider this a double-upvote of emphatic agreement.

Re: I'm tired

#23

Post by gexla »

When I was in basic training for the Army, my drill instructor told us that they can turn us into soldiers but there is nothing they can do to fix 18 years of bad parenting.

For me, there are certain traits and ways of thinking that I just can't tolerate. In some cases, I can tolerate those beliefs if the person is able to keep them locked up when I'm around. Usually this person is smart enough to know a certain belief if controversial or similar and knows when to keep quiet.

Some people know when to keep quiet, some people don't. Some people can swear like a sailor when drinking with friends at a private location but have the good sense not to do the same when out at a family location on a normal day.

People probably can't / won't change. Discussion and arguments won't do it. Even if you could change a person, it's not worth the effort for you to try. It's best to just cut the cord right there and move on with your life.

Re: I'm tired

#24

Post by jason_slack »

recursive wrote: post #14
jason_slack wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't an insult. The insult was what he said to begin with. Would it had been better if I said he needs to "have his mouth washed out with soap" like a 5 year old? Seriously. To tell me he doesn't deserve a similar treatment to what he displayed to the female is naive. He needs to know that what he did is not excusable and wont be tolerated.

You think testicle removal is a "similar treatment"? That's probably the root of the disagreement.

agreed, that was overboard. I was trying to point out a point in a 'Reductio ad absurdum' manner.

Re: I'm tired

#25

Post by influx »

I suggest next time this happens saying, "you're being rude", and change the topic. I've gotten really good results with that statement, ymmv, but hth.

Re: I'm tired

#26

Post by rescripting »

famousactress wrote: post #2

I hate that feeling.. the knowledge that engaging in the discussion is going to be exhausting and the chance of making traction is slim, and the feeling that inaction is the only reasonable alternative. Allow me to suggest another alternative to actual discussion in situations like this: Tell the person to fuck off. I'm serious. It registers disagreement, and to any rational person the lack of interest in attempting…

I agree with you wholeheartedly, but for a non confrontational person this course of action is still a battle. When you see this all the time and fight it even just by calling it out, it still wears you out.

Like it or not the hackerverse is full of people who deemphasize social experiences in favour of other things. When someone makes a comment this inappropriate in public you're not just battling their sexism, you're going up against years of personality developed in an insular environment. I've known quite a few devs whose only social interaction in a year is GDC, barring a few friends of theirs who are like minded. They are awkward and inexperienced, and 360 days a year this is reinforced and tit jokes get laughs all round. Going up against that, I can really empathize with the authors central point. I'm tired.

Re: I'm tired

#27

Post by jrajav »

jedwhite wrote: post #15

The cached version is a little hard on the eyes so here is text: Last night was the end of an amazing GDC trip. A handful of remaining friends and I made a journey out to JapanTown and we had an amazing meal. It was a great way to end the trip. One of my friends, and a fellow game developer, was there for dinner. Her trip to GDC was planned last-minute, thanks to someone obtaining her a (very expensive!) all-access p…

Here's an even more readable gist.io: http://gist.io/5297363

Re: I'm tired

#28

Post by jason_slack »

tiredofcareer wrote: post #17
jason_slack wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't an insult. The insult was what he said to begin with. Would it had been better if I said he needs to "have his mouth washed out with soap" like a 5 year old? Seriously. To tell me he doesn't deserve a similar treatment to what he displayed to the female is naive. He needs to know that what he did is not excusable and wont be tolerated.

Your comment is completely empty of content and is just inflammatory. Yes, what we said was wrong. We all arrived at that conclusion on our own and don't need your vivid imagery to reinforce, thank you.

it wasn't intended to be inflammatory.

it was intended to display outrage with the situation and how someone can act like that, blatantly.

Re: I'm tired

#29

Post by famousactress »

richforrester wrote: post #16
famousactress wrote: post #2

I hate that feeling.. the knowledge that engaging in the discussion is going to be exhausting and the chance of making traction is slim, and the feeling that inaction is the only reasonable alternative. Allow me to suggest another alternative to actual discussion in situations like this: Tell the person to fuck off. I'm serious. It registers disagreement, and to any rational person the lack of interest in attempting…

For a bit of nuance, instead of "fuck off", you could try something like "I disagree, but I'm pretty tired of that conversation", and change the topic. Statement made, stupid comment brushed off, nobody got hurt. The whole "down to their level and beat you with experience" thing comes to mind.

So.. You're probably right. Here's my (quite possibly unreasonable) defense of the language I suggested...

It grinds conversations to a halt. "I disagree, but.." doesn't register shock. That's not the kind of language people use when they witness horror, or abuse. It's not emotional. If anything, if I was at the table and that was your reaction I'd probably take it to mean that your primary takeaway is to be annoyed at pesky sexism and how these unfortunate jock-types ruin it for the rest of us.

That's not how you'd respond to abuse. This is abuse.

Fuck you registers shock, and anger. It's not a naughty word, it's a tool. I think there's an appropriate time to use language like this, and I think this is it. I definitely don't see it as "coming down to their level", with all due respect I find that kind of absurd.

Re: I'm tired

#30

Post by tiredofcareer »

jason_slack wrote: post #28
tiredofcareer wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is completely empty of content and is just inflammatory. Yes, what we said was wrong. We all arrived at that conclusion on our own and don't need your vivid imagery to reinforce, thank you.

it wasn't intended to be inflammatory. it was intended to display outrage with the situation and how someone can act like that, blatantly.

> it wasn't intended to be inflammatory.

Noted. Still was.

You can't possibly imagine that calling for mutilating someone isn't inflammatory. Can you? (Your discussion of 'real men' aside, which is a fight I don't feel like having, much like OP!)

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