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Standups are Poisonous

garethrees.co.uk

21–30 of 66 posts

Re: Standups are Poisonous

#21

This guy is seriously suggesting replacing stand-ups with management and paperwork? There's something very wrong here, but that was already clear from the objections. "30 minutes", "action points", "notes", "weekly update"? Seriously, I know that "you're not doing it right" is the standard lame excuse from Scrum-evangelists, but this paints a picture of doing pretty much the opposite of Scrum. Especially the emphasis…

The scrum can be any time of the day that's convenient. At my last place we used to do one just before lunchtime. Definitely a good way to keep it short...

Re: Standups are Poisonous

#22

This guy is seriously suggesting replacing stand-ups with management and paperwork? There's something very wrong here, but that was already clear from the objections. "30 minutes", "action points", "notes", "weekly update"? Seriously, I know that "you're not doing it right" is the standard lame excuse from Scrum-evangelists, but this paints a picture of doing pretty much the opposite of Scrum. Especially the emphasis…

The scrum can be any time of the day that's convenient. At my last place we used to do one just before lunchtime. Definitely a good way to keep it short...

Re: Standups are Poisonous

#23
To me the author seems to have linear view of productivity; that he seems to think time spent away from the keyboard is wasted time and worse still to waste that time communicating with your colleagues.

IMO the hidden goal of standups is to make sure a development team communicates, ideally face to face. Why? Because it's extremely valuable to shipping quality code / product etc. My experience has always been when standups over-run, the reason is there's some topic that needs discussing and preventing that discussion from taking place is usually a mistake.

Without standups, in a typical office environment with introverted personality types, communication doesn't happen. So in the end they're a compromise; perhaps not the best solution to the problem but good enough.

Re: Standups are Poisonous

#24

Simple answer: You're doing it wrong. The standup (in Scrum at least) should be three questions everybody answers: What you did yesterday, what you're doing today, any blockers? This should take a team less than 10 minutes easily. These meetings are not supposed to generate actions points, or problem solve, or discuss anything. They are merely supposed to make sure everybody knows what's going on. Follow up specifics…

I can second this. We do a stand up around 11:45, before we head to lunch. We each answer what we're working on that day, bookended by what we did yesterday and/or what we're working on over the next few days.

Any bigger questions which arise get discussed over lunch (sometimes) or in later one-on-ones.

Re: Standups are Poisonous

#25
There's a reason it's called a standup. Take it literally, which I doubt you're doing if meetings are running at 30 minutes.

(Yes yes you don't have to stand if you have a broken leg etc)

Action points aren't supposed to be produced. Standup's there to help people understand what everyone's working on and ensure there are no blockers. If there are blockers such as someone has no tasks or is waiting on someone else, you set up a follow-up meeting with just those people. Then you get your action points.

Re: Standups are Poisonous

#26

I am pretty strongly against micromanagement and process-for-authority's-sake. However, I think Standup is a necessary evil. It sucks. But it just might suck less than the alternative, which is opacity (which gives power to management). Standups deserve some kind of timer, though. One minute per person, and split the standup if it gets beyond 10-15 people. Everyone should also have the right to opt-out. Here's why St…

>(Of course, in a closed-allocation company, your boss can just give you impossible or extremely boring work if he wants to flush you out.)

I found your post very insightful until you brought in your standard and (imo) off-topic closed-allocation rant.

Re: Standups are Poisonous

#27
You are missing the point of a standup somewhat.

>> Morning standups force people to be in work before 10:00.

What's wrong with that? Surely 10:00 can be considered core hours for anyone who isn't a remote worker?

>> They always overrun. Rarely are standups shorter than 10 minutes. 6 person team * 30 minutes = 3 hours lost.

They never last that long in my experience, but even if they did, 30 minutes per person per day to sync up the team sounds reasonable to me.

>> Action points are rarely produced, so the value of the outcome is questionable.

Standups aren't about acquiring 'action points'. They're about knowledge sharing, raising problems and impediments, making progress visible etc. You don't decide during the standup what people should be doing.

>> Others switch off if they’re not interested in the current monologue.

That's why it's a short standup. Its whole reason for being is to avoid long meetings, status updates and overhead. Anyone who can't stay focussed for 15-30 minutes in a morning also has a severe case of ADHD.

>> Notes are rarely taken, so by the time the weekly update gets compiled the team have to scratch their heads about what they did over the last week.

If you have minutes (and agendas and notes etc) then it ceases to be a standup and turns into just another meeting! Again, the whole idea behind the standup is to avoid this kind of stuff.

There is lots you could rant about in agile, but a morning standup is definetly one of the things you should retain.

Re: Standups are Poisonous

#28
6 person team x 30 minutes = 3 hours lost.

If you have daily stand-ups, why would you have 30 minutes worth of update per person?

This whole article is pretty extreme. Standups, just like any other process (light-weight or otherwise) is only good until its original intention is being served. If a standup is taking a long time, make it a point to cut it short. If someone is narrating a long story, ask that person to stop and take the rest offline.

Finally, everyone should understand that stand-ups are used to convey status and information about important things. It's not a recital of what each person did the previous day. Sometimes, you might have nothing to say and in that case, just say so. Nobody should be talking about details in standup.

Re: Standups are Poisonous

#29
Solution: each persons update is 60 seconds or less. If you need more ask the parties affected to stay after the standup. Teams should be 7 or less in numbers. This way the PM can properly focus. Follow that ... And it works wonders. Also PMs need to be ruthless about the 60 second rule and with being on time. If your later to the stand up you owed a dollar to there team fund which gets donated to charity quarterly.

Re: Standups are Poisonous

#30

I am pretty strongly against micromanagement and process-for-authority's-sake. However, I think Standup is a necessary evil. It sucks. But it just might suck less than the alternative, which is opacity (which gives power to management). Standups deserve some kind of timer, though. One minute per person, and split the standup if it gets beyond 10-15 people. Everyone should also have the right to opt-out. Here's why St…

>(Of course, in a closed-allocation company, your boss can just give you impossible or extremely boring work if he wants to flush you out.) I found your post very insightful until you brought in your standard and (imo) off-topic closed-allocation rant.

It's not off-topic. To assess whether managerial power exists (and whether it is toxic) one must know that form it will take when it is expressed.

Standup prevents a manager from saying, "This guy isn't getting any work done". In a closed-allocation company, there's nothing to prevent the manager from assigning terrible or impossible work. It's still unilateral firing; it just takes longer.

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