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Just Use Sublime Text

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Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#21

Post by d0m »

I think the OP has never seen a very efficient VIM user crack some code. There are some valid points but they are surrounded by unnecessary ranting and lack of knowledge.

  >> Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter.
Already saw someone clicking the "Search" button on a google page instead of pressing Enter? This is the same sensation I get when I see someone editing code with the mouse. These same people also scroll a document instead of jumping to the definition or using incremental search.

Btw, not that I have something against programmers who use the mouse in their editor. Just don't say it's as fast because it's not.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#22

Post by msoad »

d0m wrote: post #21

I think the OP has never seen a very efficient VIM user crack some code. There are some valid points but they are surrounded by unnecessary ranting and lack of knowledge. >> Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter. Already saw someone clicking the "Search" button on a google page instead of pressing Enter? This is the same sensation I get when I see someone editing c…

I agree. I would say even if you are using Sublime Text don't touch the keyboard. You can do EVERYTHING without mouse in sublime text.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#23

Post by Daegalus »

See, I have tried so many times to use and love VIM, but I can't. I feel its a monstrosity. I find "nano" 1000000x better for quick editing on a server. Most servers I have worked with, have it. I only use vi/vim if i REALLY REALLY have to.

Hell, I even did VIM Adventures. I like a lot of the hotkeys and shortcuts for stuff, but its weird.

I am much happier and productive in IntelliJ and Sublime. and if I do something in command-line. Its Nano that I use.

I think its mostly the hotkeys and the lame "insert" and "command" mode seperation. I want to be in both modes. Hence I like the hotkeys on most IDEs.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#24

Post by griffordson »

purplelobster wrote: post #7

I spend 90% of my time thinking or debugging, not writing/editing, so I feel like it's optimizing the wrong thing. If you're typing with two fingers, don't use any shortcuts and only use your mouse to move around, then by all means try to improve. Personally, I don't feel it's worth it. Sure, you should know your tools, but I feel many programmers take it to the extreme with Vim/Emacs and Dvorak keyboards.

Vim literally saved my career. I have not found a mouse that I can use 8 hours a day (let alone 12+) that doesn't cause me severe hand and wrist pain after a few days. Using Vim, and Vim keyboard shortcuts in every program I can, is the only reason I can use a computer at all. And since I so rarely use a mouse now, I can actually occasionally play PC games again with a good weighted gaming mouse if I don't overdue it. That is a treat.

When I was in my 20's and early 30's I rarely thought about optimizing such things. I thought people who obsessed over Vim/Emacs were a bit odd. Now I'm one of the odd ones. I hope you never have a need to resort to such arcane arts, but if you do, Vim and Emacs will be waiting for you.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#25

Post by ebbv »

Am I the only person in the world who:

a) Never thought vim was that hard to learn (and I first learned it when I was a teenager and nobody helped me. I switched when someone on a MUD made fun of me for using pico.)

and

b) Thinks vanilla vim works just fine. Seriously my vimrc is like 10 lines long and I don't even have it on every server I work on. I don't bother with any plugins. I don't need vim integrated with git, I don't need it to do anything except let me edit text efficiently.

I dunno maybe I'm crazy.

EDIT:

I also often feel like I'm alone in not treating what tools (including text editor) I use like it's a religion. I don't care if anybody else uses vim or not. People should use what they wanna use, what do I care?

These kinds of rants make me wonder what kind of medication the OP stopped taking. If he hates vim so much stop using it. It's clearly causing him a lot of misery.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#26

Post by shurcooL »

> Vim is Oddly Bad at Indenting

Since he mentioned indenting, let me ask: how do you properly indent JSON or XML in Sublime Text 2 out of the box?

I've tried setting the appropriate syntax, selecting all text, then doing Edit->Line->Reindent but it gives half-broken results. Is that intentional, or am I doing something wrong?

Also, is there a way to quickly select all instances of currently selected identifier within the local scope? Selecting one _highlights_ all other local scope instances, but how do I make it select them all with one action?

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#27

Post by ob »

jchiu1106 wrote: post #20

Vim is one of those things you have to suck it up and learn it but after you did, it's so much more productive than most other editors. Editors like subl may seem friendly to beginners but your productivity never grows the more you use it. I use vim exclusively and I have co-workers who only use subl, and I can confidently say I can edit code at near the speed of thinking, which is not something I can say for subl us…

I learned emacs first and became reasonably proficient in it. Some years ago, I joined a company where most people used vi. I saw it as an opportunity to use vi (also vim) and I already knew a bit of vi from editing unix config files.

I spent almost 3 years working exclusively in vi. I got used to it enough to handcraft my own .vimrc file, use multiple buffers, integrate with ctags, etc etc. I think I was reasonably proficient in vim at that time.

At around that time, I did a coding project with a friend who was an emacs user and when I say him code I thought to myself "Wow, he flies!". That day I dumped vi and went back to emacs. I've never looked back.

Emacs' macros, different modes, integration, shells, etc, etc, let you deal with all sorts of systems in a pleasant way. Learning emacs is a much better investment than vim.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#29

Post by MetaCosm »

ebbv wrote: post #25

Am I the only person in the world who: a) Never thought vim was that hard to learn (and I first learned it when I was a teenager and nobody helped me. I switched when someone on a MUD made fun of me for using pico.) and b) Thinks vanilla vim works just fine. Seriously my vimrc is like 10 lines long and I don't even have it on every server I work on. I don't bother with any plugins. I don't need vim integrated with gi…

He tried to turn vim into an IDE, a role that vim specifically decided not to embrace, that will make anyone go a little crazy.

Vim is good at editing text, is extremely portable, and works great with a partner in crime like tmux.

I have used vim for 12+ years, and the complexity of his setup makes me a bit dizzy.

Re: Just Use Sublime Text

#30

Post by rdw »

d0m wrote: post #21

I think the OP has never seen a very efficient VIM user crack some code. There are some valid points but they are surrounded by unnecessary ranting and lack of knowledge. >> Don’t you ever think you can beat a mouse. Only in very few edge cases will it even matter. Already saw someone clicking the "Search" button on a google page instead of pressing Enter? This is the same sensation I get when I see someone editing c…

Many of the most productive programmers (in terms of text editing ability) I know are heavy mouse users. Watching them work really opened my eyes and taught me a few good habits. One of the skills that you have to develop is the ability to hit very precise targets with the mouse very quickly. I think that a lot of people are simply inexpert with the mouse and misclick a lot, and that adds to the perceived cost of the mouse in their head. But I assure you that if you can reliably hit targets with your mouse it will unlock productivity doors for you.

Want to rename an identifier? Double click it with the right hand, Ctrl- with the left, tab with left to proper position in dialog while right hand is returning to home, type replacement, hit enter a few times.

Adding a prefix to a bunch of strings? Click-drag to select the prefix while hitting Ctrl-C (stretching the pinky to reach the Ctrl takes about as much time as the entire click-drag), click click click on all the places you need it to go, timing the clicks with Ctrl-V on the left hand, scrolling with the wheel as needed. Very, very fast.

I suppose that describing it doesn't do it justice; I certainly wouldn't believe it if I hadn't seen it with my own eyes repeatedly.

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