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Gravitational Lensing to Observe Ancient Earth

rein.pk

21–30 of 66 posts

Re: Gravitational Lensing to Observe Ancient Earth

#21
Was reading the article, excited by the prospect when I realised, we have a hard enough time identifying planets dozens of light years away, from direct light, that surely the reflected light from a massive object 3000 light years away would be orders of magnitudes more difficult. Perhaps impossible. Theoretically possible yes, but what sort of technology needs to be invented to actually do it?

edit: turns out I should have just finished reading the article.. bigger telescopes!

Re: Gravitational Lensing to Observe Ancient Earth

#22
post #20

This Lebbeus Woods has some great artwork. I'd never heard of him before but I found these two pieces by him: http://historyofourworld.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/lw-iii.... http://www.krobarch.com/images/winners/2012/entry3353.jpg

And some interesting reads on his blog: http://lebbeuswoods.wordpress.com/2012/02/17/zahas-aquatic-c...

Re: Gravitational Lensing to Observe Ancient Earth

#24
post #10

The practical limitation isn't just magnitude, but resolving power. Atmospheric disturbance makes it difficult to resolve anything smaller than a meter from orbit, and the diffraction limit means the further are away from the thing you want to observe, the wider your telescope needs to be. Since the distortion effects near a black hole are near-asymptotic, the features we want to see have very small subtended angles,…

To be technical, you could still see an object that is smaller to than your resolving power (this happens essentially every time we observe individual stars). The issue is what is called the "confusion limit" - the point at which you can't be confident that what appears to be a source is not just the summed emission from a bunch of fainter background objects.

But you are right that increased resolution is key. The higher resolution helps you beat the confusion limit by working to resolve the faint background sources into individual objects, so you can separate them.

So, if you wanted to be certain that what you were seeing was the refracted light from Earth, you would need the high resolution to be sure that what you were seeing was actually that reflection, and not just a superposition of fainter background sources.

More on the confusion limit: http://coolwiki.ipac.caltech.edu/index.php/Confusion

Re: Gravitational Lensing to Observe Ancient Earth

#26
post #17
post #16

I've never seen that image of our galaxy's central region, it's fascinating! Is "Sgr A" the black hole, Sagittarius A*? If yes, why would it be bright? I thought it's inactive.

Sgr A is the black hole Sagittarius A* as far as I know. The black hole itself isn't bright. As far as I understand, the swirling gas around it (outside the event horizon) is what's sending out all the light. What do you mean by inactive?

By inactive I meant that it's not swallowing anything currently, but I guess if it has attracted a gas cloud this is simply not true. Must be quite a sight. Imagine there's a civilization on one of the central stars (if that's even possible considering the bursts of radiation they must get there) - I wonder what the night sky would look like.

Re: Gravitational Lensing to Observe Ancient Earth

#28
post #10

The practical limitation isn't just magnitude, but resolving power. Atmospheric disturbance makes it difficult to resolve anything smaller than a meter from orbit, and the diffraction limit means the further are away from the thing you want to observe, the wider your telescope needs to be. Since the distortion effects near a black hole are near-asymptotic, the features we want to see have very small subtended angles,…

This reminds me of the "Picture Zoom" sketch from "Red Dwarf -- Back to Earth". Youtube clip here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KUFkb0d1kbU

Re: Gravitational Lensing to Observe Ancient Earth

#29

I find it sort of ironic that everyone here thinks this would be awesome, but are completely opposed to hovering predator drones observing our every action 24/7. Obviously it's all a matter of who has access to the data, but essentially the data would be the same.

The data is not the same - they vary greatly on spatial resolution and latency. Better than 10cm resolution with effectively 0s latency (in the drone case), and ~5,000-12,000km resolution (assuming you can get back only a couple of pixels from a MACHO) with yrs of latency are two very very different things.

Re: Gravitational Lensing to Observe Ancient Earth

#30

I find it sort of ironic that everyone here thinks this would be awesome, but are completely opposed to hovering predator drones observing our every action 24/7. Obviously it's all a matter of who has access to the data, but essentially the data would be the same.

Even disregarding the resolution problems as brought up by ebilsten, and assuming we have some magical tech that would allow us spy-satellite-like capabilities with this... we'd still be looking at Earth decades in the past.

I for one could not care less if historians centuries in the future want to observe me through a black hole. Its effects on freedom and civil rights is basically nil, unlike predator drones.

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