Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Growing By Shrinking

hackertourism.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 50 posts

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#21

Post by kayoone »

brador wrote: post #9

Isn't the point of quick growth to work hard in your early years and retire early? Sell, IPO, or just plain bank. Yes, you could have a happier life if you worked at a more relaxed pace (there's a guy on HN who works 3, holidays 9), but you'll most likely be working for longer. Wanting to work for longer assumes you will remain fit to work for all those years, mentally and physically. That's not as guaranteed as you'…

That assumes working extra hard in your younger years makes you rich before 30, which in a vast majority of cases does not happen, no matter if you work for a startup, bigco or on your own.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#22

Post by peteforde »

pmorici wrote: post #14

I'm confused first he says, "I’M DONE WITH WRITING CODE FOR OTHER PEOPLE.", but two paragraphs later he says, "All of my work comes by referral now, and I have an agent". So what exactly is he saying? That he just does other kinds of work besides software development now? If that is the case then why is one 'whoring one self out' and the other is not?

As Ted already explained, I'm advising companies now. I enjoy this work greatly.

Programming is my hobby, now. It's fun and it informs how I work.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#23

Post by peteforde »

noelwelsh wrote: post #13

Sounds great, but let's be realistic here: it's the N years of consultancy that allow this fantastic lifestyle, because it is the network built then that is being leveraged now. In other words, as fantastic as this lifestyle sounds (and it really does sound fantastic!) it's not something you can just jump into.

I think we agree! I state rather explicitly that it took me 15 years of hard work and network building to find myself here.

However, I cannot rest on my laurels and for the record I'm just getting started.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#24

Post by peteforde »

AznHisoka wrote: post #15
noelwelsh wrote: post #13

Sounds great, but let's be realistic here: it's the N years of consultancy that allow this fantastic lifestyle, because it is the network built then that is being leveraged now. In other words, as fantastic as this lifestyle sounds (and it really does sound fantastic!) it's not something you can just jump into.

Yep. He calls coding for other ppl "whoring".. but he seems to forget that people pay you to do EXACTLY what others won't or can't do. If other people enjoy it as much as they enjoy sex, you wouldn't get paid a ton

If you enjoy coding for other people as much as you enjoy coding your own projects, then we are wired very differently - and that's just fine.

However, I have found that many of the things I used to think everyone could do are in fact skills that I now get paid to use because they can't do them. Go figure.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#25

Post by seivan »

I agree with you. A small team of founders that are just developers who can design will outbeat ANYTHING that might have some VC money behind it.

You don't need business monkeys, or "UX experts" who can't code their JS/CSS. I hate it when iOS positions already have a lead designer who can't do Cocoa. It's such stupid notion. It's like saying we're looking for a CSS developer, we already have a lead HTML developer.

iOS products are logic + design. And a developer who can design is far more useful, cheaper and faster than a developer + ux monkey.

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5181963

"I like programming a lot. If I'm away from it for more than a couple weeks, I start to miss it.

The software industry deserves to choke on a dick and die, however. Fuck bad code, micromanagers, dopey "startups" that expect 14-hour days on the assumption that 0.0x equity slices represent real "ownership", closed allocation, and regimes in which programmers don't choose their tools. All of that can go to hell.

As software engineers, we're a defeated tribe. We work for businessmen, get little respect in comparison to the value we add, and often are pigeonholed into roles that are 3 levels below our creative and intellectual ability. We do most of our work for managers and investors who think we're losers because we don't have their jobs. To me, quitting programming is just running away. Programming was never the problem. We need to take control of this game. We need to take it back and make it good-- and fast."

Let the downvotes commence.

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#26

Post by shawn-butler »

AznHisoka wrote: post #15
noelwelsh wrote: post #13

Sounds great, but let's be realistic here: it's the N years of consultancy that allow this fantastic lifestyle, because it is the network built then that is being leveraged now. In other words, as fantastic as this lifestyle sounds (and it really does sound fantastic!) it's not something you can just jump into.

Yep. He calls coding for other ppl "whoring".. but he seems to forget that people pay you to do EXACTLY what others won't or can't do. If other people enjoy it as much as they enjoy sex, you wouldn't get paid a ton

This is pretty simplistic view of labor and significantly ignores many of the reasons companies seek contract labor or outsource projects for development. The first thing you learn in microISV is that you need to determine as quickly as possible what is the actual, underlying cause a client (that is not a friend or foaf) is seeking your services. It has been my experience that it is rarely or never "we need some coders because we can't hire any."

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#27

Post by shawn-butler »

peteforde wrote: post #24
AznHisoka wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. He calls coding for other ppl "whoring".. but he seems to forget that people pay you to do EXACTLY what others won't or can't do. If other people enjoy it as much as they enjoy sex, you wouldn't get paid a ton

If you enjoy coding for other people as much as you enjoy coding your own projects, then we are wired very differently - and that's just fine. However, I have found that many of the things I used to think everyone could do are in fact skills that I now get paid to use because they can't do them. Go figure.

What can you tell me about the "agent". Are you paying him or her or is it a commission basis? How did you find someone you could trust?

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#28

Post by peteforde »

shawn-butler wrote: post #27
peteforde wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you enjoy coding for other people as much as you enjoy coding your own projects, then we are wired very differently - and that's just fine. However, I have found that many of the things I used to think everyone could do are in fact skills that I now get paid to use because they can't do them. Go figure.

What can you tell me about the "agent". Are you paying him or her or is it a commission basis? How did you find someone you could trust?

Ted Pearlman (http://usistwo.com/) approached me, and I listened because he had an interesting opportunity that was relevant to my interests. He was also referred directly by Hampton Catlin, who I used to run a company with. After jumping on Skype with Ted, it was clear that we would be friends.

I'd prefer to let Ted discuss how he is paid, but I will point you to his Pudding Manifesto:

http://puddingmanifesto.org/

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#29

Post by brador »

kayoone wrote: post #21
brador wrote: post #9

Isn't the point of quick growth to work hard in your early years and retire early? Sell, IPO, or just plain bank. Yes, you could have a happier life if you worked at a more relaxed pace (there's a guy on HN who works 3, holidays 9), but you'll most likely be working for longer. Wanting to work for longer assumes you will remain fit to work for all those years, mentally and physically. That's not as guaranteed as you'…

That assumes working extra hard in your younger years makes you rich before 30, which in a vast majority of cases does not happen, no matter if you work for a startup, bigco or on your own.

Rich or comfortable wealth or your own personal limits?

You can retire to a lifetime of minimum wage and no more work ever for just $200k. A good software engineer could back that up in under 5 years. Play video games all day stress free till death if that's your thing. (not recommended).

Re: Growing By Shrinking

#30

Post by notahacker »

kayoone wrote: post #21
brador wrote: post #9

Isn't the point of quick growth to work hard in your early years and retire early? Sell, IPO, or just plain bank. Yes, you could have a happier life if you worked at a more relaxed pace (there's a guy on HN who works 3, holidays 9), but you'll most likely be working for longer. Wanting to work for longer assumes you will remain fit to work for all those years, mentally and physically. That's not as guaranteed as you'…

That assumes working extra hard in your younger years makes you rich before 30, which in a vast majority of cases does not happen, no matter if you work for a startup, bigco or on your own.

This. I'd say it's much closer to certainty that you'll enjoy a better lifetime work/life balance by prioritising work/life balance from the start rather than putting everything into hitting a home run. There are good reasons to start a startup; the expectation of retiring rich in your 30s isn't one of them.

Wanting to earn all your money in the first quartile of the average workspan also assumes you'll be mentally and physically prepared to use your later life to enjoy all those things you missed out on. Even looking at the apparent success stories, I'd be surprised if none of today's greying CEOs and bankers ever dreamed about spending time doing something other than increasing their assets...

Post reply on HN