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What really happened at LivingSocial?

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Re: What really happened at LivingSocial?

#21
Did PrivCo or some related business entities have a short position in LivingSocial when the PrivCo statement was made on LivingSocial?

Well, not in any simple sense since apparently LivingSocial is not public yet. But a short position on a related company?

Re: What really happened at LivingSocial?

#22

Oh for chrissake: Just release the funding docs and term sheet. The letter was full of possible half-truths(eg: 'There is no "4x liquidation preference"' does not preclude 3x or 5x or any other number besides 4), so smart employees should be looking until they see the docs.

No, he says explicitly it does not get near 4x.

Re: What really happened at LivingSocial?

#23

Oh for chrissake: Just release the funding docs and term sheet. The letter was full of possible half-truths(eg: 'There is no "4x liquidation preference"' does not preclude 3x or 5x or any other number besides 4), so smart employees should be looking until they see the docs.

"There is no "4x liquidation preference." (Once again, typical of almost all venture rounds, there is a liquidation preference, but it slides up or down based on a key metric and gets nowhere near 4x.)"

Re: What really happened at LivingSocial?

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I do not understand is: what does an 'investor' expects 'injecting' 110 million dollars on a bankrupt business? There is nothing livingsocial can do to revert its current trajectory. It's not about the company, but the very core of its business model does not work, not one but dozen of similar companies failed early, are livingsocial and groupon trying to run some sort of ponzi scheme on desperate investors and…

> What I do not understand is: what does an 'investor' expects 'injecting' 110 million dollars on a bankrupt business? According to the PrivCo article, they got first rights on liquidation. So they'd be either getting a huge part of a miracle turnaround, or most of their money back when the company was sold off in bankruptcy. Of course that article appears to be completely wrong, so I guess it doesn't actually matter…

What value will the company have in bankruptcy. That's a lot of Aeron chairs and used iThings to get anywhere close to $100m in value.

Re: What really happened at LivingSocial?

#25
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I do not understand is: what does an 'investor' expects 'injecting' 110 million dollars on a bankrupt business? There is nothing livingsocial can do to revert its current trajectory. It's not about the company, but the very core of its business model does not work, not one but dozen of similar companies failed early, are livingsocial and groupon trying to run some sort of ponzi scheme on desperate investors and…

It's reasonably obvious that the investor does not agree with your assertion that "the very core of its business model does not work". You can't state something like that as inarguable fact. I don't doubt for a second that LivingSocial is experimenting with it's models, innovating and trying new stuff. It might not work out, but the investor clearly has enough confidence that it will to invest more cash.

They are doing it for so long and so many other companies have failed, in many other countries, that I'm starting to think that will never work.

But really, this is just a completely arguable point of view, sorry if it came out a bit despotic.

Re: What really happened at LivingSocial?

#26
post #9

What I don't get is this; how does Living Social do ~$500mm in revenue and still fail to be in the black? It's not like they have any physical merchandise. All their expenses should be personnel, servers and bandwidth right? How are they bleeding through over $500mm in a year then? All the employees are overpaid? Paying too much for servers?

It's gross revenue rather than net. Take 50% off the top for paying merchants. Then the expenses you mentioned (sales cost, software design, hosting, etc.).

My guess though is that their major cost is customer acquisition. That seems to be the norm in this space. They're buying customers for $5 and making $2.50 off them (numbers theoretical, as an example) hoping to make the rest back later when they've won the market.

Re: What really happened at LivingSocial?

#27
post #21

Did PrivCo or some related business entities have a short position in LivingSocial when the PrivCo statement was made on LivingSocial? Well, not in any simple sense since apparently LivingSocial is not public yet. But a short position on a related company?

It is difficult, at best, to know anyone's position in a private company without insider knowledge.

While it might be theoretically possible to short something using a company like SecondMarket, the prevailing wisdom is that if it's not public it's probably not being shorted.

Re: What really happened at LivingSocial?

#28
post #2

LivingSocial's response is extremely damning of "PrivCo".

What I do not understand is: what does an 'investor' expects 'injecting' 110 million dollars on a bankrupt business? There is nothing livingsocial can do to revert its current trajectory. It's not about the company, but the very core of its business model does not work, not one but dozen of similar companies failed early, are livingsocial and groupon trying to run some sort of ponzi scheme on desperate investors and…

That is the $818 (now $918) million question. Even a hotdog stand is doing better than LivingSocial. Why would investors throw good money after bad?

"We are a company that does over half a billion in revenue. If we stay diligent, we hope to turn the corner to become profitable soon."

Re: What really happened at LivingSocial?

#29
post #21

Did PrivCo or some related business entities have a short position in LivingSocial when the PrivCo statement was made on LivingSocial? Well, not in any simple sense since apparently LivingSocial is not public yet. But a short position on a related company?

It is difficult, at best, to know anyone's position in a private company without insider knowledge. While it might be theoretically possible to short something using a company like SecondMarket, the prevailing wisdom is that if it's not public it's probably not being shorted.

Ah, yes, as I just corrected, but how 'bout being short on GroupOn?

Re: What really happened at LivingSocial?

#30
post #21

Did PrivCo or some related business entities have a short position in LivingSocial when the PrivCo statement was made on LivingSocial? Well, not in any simple sense since apparently LivingSocial is not public yet. But a short position on a related company?

Can you have a short position in a privately held company? I don't think so, but maybe there's a financial vehicle for that.
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