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TextMate vs AptanaStudio

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Re: TextMate vs AptanaStudio

#21

Post by axod »

carlosrr wrote: post #17
axod wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm coming from jedit, and before that any other basic terminal text editor. I've never been one for help/bundles/snippets/macros/etc My gripes come for instance when I go back to do something, and TextMate adds in extra idiocy eg a = 9+6 // Oops, need to double all that - (9+6)*2, lets bracket it up... a = ()9+6 // WTF TextMate added a close bracket that is clearly useless My remaining gripe with TextMate is that I…

If you select the 9+6 and then insert the opening parenthesis it will wrap everything automatically. This is not really intuitive, but the extra idiocy is there for a reason.

Sure. But I don't want to select text, I want to type/edit the way I want to.

I've disabled all the 'insert extra random characters' shenanigans now.

Re: TextMate vs AptanaStudio

#22

Post by ohhmaagawd »

Hates_ wrote: post #3
pclark wrote: post #2

i wish someone would make a really nice cocoa IDE for ruby (or make xcode work with rails) make it work nicely with Git, Rails, Terminal and auto complete: Sold. Auto-complete is a lovely way to learn a new language.

I'm totally of the opposite mindset. I think auto-complete is a terrible way to introduce someone to a new language. Yes, you may see results quicker, but I've found all that happens is you become reliant upon auto-complete to do the thinking for you. All too often I have seen people use auto-complete as a tool to help them just mindlessly code away rather then taking the time to actually figure out what it is they a…

This is silly. Auto-complete doesn't do any thinking, it's just presenting you options of what to do. You make the decision. You do the thinking.

Re: TextMate vs AptanaStudio

#23

Post by ohhmaagawd »

I'd recommend trying Netbeans with the Ruby Plugin or Ruby Mine.

I've been using Ruby Mine some lately and am pretty impressed. Has a debugger that works well, auto-completion, rake integration, click thru to declaration, etc.

It's not going to be free ($79), but given JetBrains track record with IDEs I think it's a good investment.

I tried NetBeans last year and it seems promising, but haven't used it in 6 months.

Re: TextMate vs AptanaStudio

#24

Post by latortuga »

It's interesting to see a comparison of apples to oranges (IDE to text editor) when you can very easily compare apples to apples - E text editor very closely resembles TextMate, works on Windows, and supports all (or almost all) of the bundles available for TextMate. It's even cheaper than TextMate.

Re: TextMate vs AptanaStudio

#25

Post by jballanc »

stewiecat wrote: post #13
marbletiles wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it's a joke, but those graphs are wrong, as is the way we talk about learning curves. If something has a steep learning curve, it's easy to learn to use. Look at the vi graph: Assuming the x axis is time and the y axis is knowledge, according to its chart you know how to use virtually all of vi as soon as you start using it. Things that are hard to learn have shallow learning curves: it takes a long time to be…

Thank you for saying this. I correct folks all the time on this and while they agree steep == easy && shallow == hard is correct, it's 'counter-intuitive' (their words, not mine). vi is easy, you only need to know ~5 commands to be useful in it.

No, a learning curve has incremental knowledge on the X-axis and effort on the Y-axis. The more effort you have to put in to learn that next important feature makes the curve steeper. This is also why learning curves typically level off at some point.

Re: TextMate vs AptanaStudio

#26

Post by anatoli »

axod wrote: post #16
frisco wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's taken a long time to disable all these irritations and I'm not sure I have them all yet. I feel like you're missing the point of TextMate. These things might seem like annoyances now, but they're there for a reason. Once you get the muscle memory for TextMate it'll become an extension of your body, like a prefix-keyless emacs or vi. Your profile says you're not new here, so I have to assume you know what you'r…

I'm coming from jedit, and before that any other basic terminal text editor. I've never been one for help/bundles/snippets/macros/etc My gripes come for instance when I go back to do something, and TextMate adds in extra idiocy eg a = 9+6 // Oops, need to double all that - (9+6)*2, lets bracket it up... a = ()9+6 // WTF TextMate added a close bracket that is clearly useless My remaining gripe with TextMate is that I…

> I've never been one for help/bundles/snippets/macros/etc

And you bought TextMate because... it's cool? I seriously don't understand, why you would buy TextMate, if you don't like using the very things that make it great.

Re: TextMate vs AptanaStudio

#27

Post by axod »

anatoli wrote: post #26
axod wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm coming from jedit, and before that any other basic terminal text editor. I've never been one for help/bundles/snippets/macros/etc My gripes come for instance when I go back to do something, and TextMate adds in extra idiocy eg a = 9+6 // Oops, need to double all that - (9+6)*2, lets bracket it up... a = ()9+6 // WTF TextMate added a close bracket that is clearly useless My remaining gripe with TextMate is that I…

> I've never been one for help/bundles/snippets/macros/etc And you bought TextMate because... it's cool? I seriously don't understand, why you would buy TextMate, if you don't like using the very things that make it great.

I'm evaluating it atm. If you know of something exactly like TextMate that is just a text editor (syntax highlighting), and not an "interfering code suggestion tool", I'd be interested.

Re: TextMate vs AptanaStudio

#28

Post by 1gor »

carlosrr wrote: post #17
axod wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm coming from jedit, and before that any other basic terminal text editor. I've never been one for help/bundles/snippets/macros/etc My gripes come for instance when I go back to do something, and TextMate adds in extra idiocy eg a = 9+6 // Oops, need to double all that - (9+6)*2, lets bracket it up... a = ()9+6 // WTF TextMate added a close bracket that is clearly useless My remaining gripe with TextMate is that I…

If you select the 9+6 and then insert the opening parenthesis it will wrap everything automatically. This is not really intuitive, but the extra idiocy is there for a reason.

Does anybody know how to do this in emacs?

Re: TextMate vs AptanaStudio

#29

Post by anatoli »

axod wrote: post #27
anatoli wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've never been one for help/bundles/snippets/macros/etc And you bought TextMate because... it's cool? I seriously don't understand, why you would buy TextMate, if you don't like using the very things that make it great.

I'm evaluating it atm. If you know of something exactly like TextMate that is just a text editor (syntax highlighting), and not an "interfering code suggestion tool", I'd be interested.

Smultron, BBEdit, TextWrangler... depends on what you need, TextWrangler and Smultron are probably the simplest, although they're also limited in certain ways.

Re: TextMate vs AptanaStudio

#30

Post by MartinMond »

old-gregg wrote: post #7
Hates_ wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm totally of the opposite mindset. I think auto-complete is a terrible way to introduce someone to a new language. Yes, you may see results quicker, but I've found all that happens is you become reliant upon auto-complete to do the thinking for you. All too often I have seen people use auto-complete as a tool to help them just mindlessly code away rather then taking the time to actually figure out what it is they a…

I'm totally of the opposite mindset. I think auto-complete is a terrible way to introduce someone to a new language. Agreed. Back in college I remember reading a book about effects of various computer aids on our cognitive development [the users in question were mostly teenagers/students]. Programmers were mentioned too. Relying on compilers to catch syntax errors or auto-completing IDEs to suggest method names we're…

I couldn't disagree more. Obviously a bad developer is a bad developer with or without auto complete.

Where auto complete comes in is when one wants to port knowledge from one programming language to another. For example while I'm a computer science student I moonlight as a PHP developer and I don't really care to memorize PHP's perverse (idiosyncratic if you prefer) functions. But I know that array_ CTRL-Space in eclipse will tell me that array_filter takes the list as it's first while array_map takes it as it's second argument. One can blame that on PHP's designer but at the end of the day auto complete saves me from memorizing something I really don't need to know. (Ok now that I've looked it up and written it down that bit of knowledge will probably stay with me forever)

Haskell is way more consistent in that regard, but I still couldn't survive without Hoogle.

And Java without auto complete takes not only twice the time to write but would also force me to remember that Collection is in java.util while Iterable is in java.lang. I think anyone would be hard pressed to explain to me why I need to know that.

So I think I made my case that skills are not dependent on rote learning of a function's argument order or a class's namespace.

Furthermore it seems to me that auto completing IDEs actually help with remembering often used "phrases".

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