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Hack of The Sexes

hackofthesexes.org

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Re: Hack of The Sexes

#21

Post by lk145 »

cjbprime wrote: post #20
alexanderh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do agree, but also feel like ANYTHING AT ALL to encourage more women to join in on things like this is a good thing. Sometimes people need a sense of competition to step up to the plate. But yea... This is a little too close to being distasteful, considering the way things are. Its a slippery slope though.

> I do agree, but also feel like ANYTHING AT ALL to encourage more women to join in on things like this is a good thing. Why assume the only effect could be a positive one? It's possible for an idea to discourage women from joining in on things, and furthermore encourage women who've already joined in to feel demotivated. This seems like it might well be one of those ideas. Also, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poli…

I can't speak for all women, but as a female developer, I definitely find this event discouraging. I hate being seen as "female dev" instead of just a dev. The last thing I want to do is go to an event that is based on this distinction and could possibly be used as evidence that I am less skilled at my job because of my gender. This is why I only feel truly comfortable at all-women hackathons. It's the only place where I can believe with reasonable certainty that if I mess up it won't lead to a generalization like this: http://xkcd.com/385/

Re: Hack of The Sexes

#23

Post by antihero »

Completely ignorant of trans/genderqueer people and supportive of the oppressive notion of a gender binary.

Just because a woman organised it it doesn't make it okay.

Re: Hack of The Sexes

#24

Post by antihero »

alexanderh wrote: post #11
anextio wrote: post #4

> The gender battle has existed for as long as we have. An unending competition as to which sex is better. This is no different, we're just changing the rules and bringing in a few different twists with this contest. Wow. No thank you. This kind of thing might be fun and innocent if we were not already living in an industry rife with sexism, inequality, and bro-culture rudeness.

I do agree, but also feel like ANYTHING AT ALL to encourage more women to join in on things like this is a good thing. Sometimes people need a sense of competition to step up to the plate. But yea... This is a little too close to being distasteful, considering the way things are. Its a slippery slope though.

> feel like ANYTHING AT ALL to encourage more women to join in on things like this is a good thing

Not really, unconsidered, blunt, ignorant attempts are as likely to as much damage as they would good.

Re: Hack of The Sexes

#25

Post by theorique »

mllerustad wrote: post #19
crabasa wrote: post #12

I am very confused about this event. My initial reaction was horror, and I think Twitter agreed [1]. Then I looked into who was behind this, assuming it was a hoax. One of the organizers appears [2] to be Sarah Herbert [3] the CEO of Curious Pixel, a brand/design shop in Kansas City. It seems that Sarah and Curious Pixel are very supportive of women in technology [4]. So, I think this is just a sad case of a well-mea…

Even assuming the best of intent w.r.t. to tech gender relations, promoting (cis) women in tech at the expense of intersex/genderqueer people in tech is simply not cool.

I suspect the focal point is probably a matter of statistics as much as anything else - addressing 51% of the population, vs ~0.1-0.3% of the population.

Re: Hack of The Sexes

#26

Post by theorique »

Here's a thought:

Stereotyping in broad strokes, men tend to be more "competition oriented" than women.

Men are already well-represented in hacking and tech.

Therefore, the more aggressive and competitive sex is also likely to be more numerous at this event.

So how is this likely to "encourage" females to participate in technology? If anything, it draws more attention to their sex and their "odd man out" status. This is not necessarily a good thing.

Re: Hack of The Sexes

#27

Post by Geekette »

anextio wrote: post #4

> The gender battle has existed for as long as we have. An unending competition as to which sex is better. This is no different, we're just changing the rules and bringing in a few different twists with this contest. Wow. No thank you. This kind of thing might be fun and innocent if we were not already living in an industry rife with sexism, inequality, and bro-culture rudeness.

Agreed. I'm a woman and my first thought on sighting this was "Really? Are we seriously on this bullshit?" When I found out it was a woman behind it, I was even more disgusted. I notice she's backpedaled and the poster has been altered, post twitter uproar.

Re: Hack of The Sexes

#28

Post by Geekette »

alexanderh wrote: post #11
anextio wrote: post #4

> The gender battle has existed for as long as we have. An unending competition as to which sex is better. This is no different, we're just changing the rules and bringing in a few different twists with this contest. Wow. No thank you. This kind of thing might be fun and innocent if we were not already living in an industry rife with sexism, inequality, and bro-culture rudeness.

I do agree, but also feel like ANYTHING AT ALL to encourage more women to join in on things like this is a good thing. Sometimes people need a sense of competition to step up to the plate. But yea... This is a little too close to being distasteful, considering the way things are. Its a slippery slope though.

That is NOT encouragement in any way. a)I appreciate competition as motivation and this ain't it; I prefer competing in such arenas as a person, not as a woman. b) And for other women whom may cite intimidation as one of the issues that keeps them out of tech fields, this is hardly a way to lure them in.

Re: Hack of The Sexes

#29

Post by Geekette »

obviouslygreen wrote: post #17
crabasa wrote: post #12

I am very confused about this event. My initial reaction was horror, and I think Twitter agreed [1]. Then I looked into who was behind this, assuming it was a hoax. One of the organizers appears [2] to be Sarah Herbert [3] the CEO of Curious Pixel, a brand/design shop in Kansas City. It seems that Sarah and Curious Pixel are very supportive of women in technology [4]. So, I think this is just a sad case of a well-mea…

A predictable response, but while I see the point regarding the "tone-deafness" of the message, I think it's also indicative that the attitude behind our "culture" has gone too far towards "holy crap anything that could possibly make anyone feel left out or even appear discriminatory to even the most oversensitive individuals must be utterly terrible and unconscionable." Your research, to me, makes that a pretty safe…

The fact that a woman who otherwise champion females in tech was behind the poster does not excuse it.

Sexism, like many complex issues exists as a continuum, degrees of which can be perpetrated by anyone, including women.

Re: Hack of The Sexes

#30

Post by erikpukinskis »

obviouslygreen wrote: post #17
crabasa wrote: post #12

I am very confused about this event. My initial reaction was horror, and I think Twitter agreed [1]. Then I looked into who was behind this, assuming it was a hoax. One of the organizers appears [2] to be Sarah Herbert [3] the CEO of Curious Pixel, a brand/design shop in Kansas City. It seems that Sarah and Curious Pixel are very supportive of women in technology [4]. So, I think this is just a sad case of a well-mea…

A predictable response, but while I see the point regarding the "tone-deafness" of the message, I think it's also indicative that the attitude behind our "culture" has gone too far towards "holy crap anything that could possibly make anyone feel left out or even appear discriminatory to even the most oversensitive individuals must be utterly terrible and unconscionable." Your research, to me, makes that a pretty safe…

I find it fascinating that you don't seems to think your own advice applies to yourself. Shouldn't you think and ask before you decide that every negative response to this is baseless?

I would respectfully ask you to drop the word "offensive" from your vocabulary. There are people who get offended at things, but that is not about feminism, that is about feeling superior. And arguing with someone who is just trying to feel superior to you is pointless. Ignore them¹.

What we are concerned about here is not offense, but harm. I can see this event going one of two ways: 1) the women "win" and sexist men write it off as rigged/a fluke, or 2) the women lose and sexist men use it to justify their beliefs. There is a significant chance that this event could make women hackers' work harder. That's harm. I know a bunch of women hackers. Their work is already made unreasonably harder by sexism.

I think this world where there are so many barriers to people hacking is harmful. Like, there will be more good meals, and more happy time with family, and more love, and more cool shit, and more justice if we break down some of those barriers. "Offense" has nothing at all to do with it.

¹ I also respectfully ask you to look more closely when people seem "just offended" to you, and think and ask about whether they might be concerned about legitimate harm.

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