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Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

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Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#21

Post by Bjartr »

writtles wrote: post #7
ChuckMcM wrote: post #5

I find these things fun, of course some folks want to find alien technology, but I remind people that we've lost roughly 2/3rds of all the probes and ships that we've sent to Mars [1]. Since there isn't a lot of stuff covering them up, eventually we may find a bit of antenna from the Mars Observer sticking up where the spacecraft attempted to fly through the planet. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exploration_of_Mar…

Seriously? You're implying that this is an antenna from an Earth spacecraft?

Well, it's a more reasonable explanation than aliens at least.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#22

Post by krapp »

bjoe_lewis wrote: post #12
GuiA wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my dearest wishes is that humanity will find solid evidence for other lifeforms in the universe (whether it is through remains or actual contact). This moment, if/when it happens, will be so mindblowing on so many levels and affect us deeply as a society/species/etc. that I just WANT to see it.

So you just want to see all religions on earth, dead.

Religion will survive. It survived learning the sun didn't revolve around the Earth. It survived learning disease wasn't caused by demons and that Zeus wasn't hurling lightning from Olympus. It survived evolution and the Big Bang. People will say the mysteries of God* were just greater than they realized, and their mythologies will start to seem a bit more like Star Wars.

* or what have you

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#23

Post by mark_integerdsv »

Bjartr wrote: post #21
writtles wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously? You're implying that this is an antenna from an Earth spacecraft?

Well, it's a more reasonable explanation than aliens at least.

I'm interested as to why you'd assert that so confidently.

Is it perhaps the more comfortable of the two possibilities?

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#24

Post by hdivider »

mistercow wrote: post #17
hdivider wrote: post #6

I'm certainly not an expert on this, but I'd say the most important number to think about when looking at rover images is the scale . "the little protuberance is probably about 0.5 cm tall, or even smaller." Five mm is obviously tiny. Keep this in mind before making up hypotheses as to what the thing is. =) We have to wait until better data is available. What's fascinating in itself though is that no person, however…

> What's fascinating in itself though is that no person, however sceptical, can immediately rule out the possibility that stuff like this is some form of life or even evidence of non-human technology. You can never completely rule out that possibility, regardless of how much evidence you collect, but it's a matter of semantics at that point. Immediately and without collecting anymore data, we can dismiss the hypothes…

"Seeing possible evidence of extraterrestrial life in every unexpected observation is nothing more than a superstition."

I agree, and I hope I didn't give the impression that this is what we should be doing. This thing is still just an observation - it's not evidence of anything yet. My point was this: we know of things that would effectively rule out the 'life as we know it on Mars' hypothesis (e.g. absolutely no evidence of any water, liquid or otherwise), but we're not seeing them.

It's true that we keep trying to dream up new ways of allowing the possibility of life on Mars to counter existing hurdles (e.g. hypothetical microbial life buried underground to shield from radiation), but if there were some solid evidence that would allow us to say 'yeah, there was almost certainly never any life on Mars, and neither is there any life on it today,' we would accept that filter.

We could then put Mars in the same category as the Moon when it comes to the life hypothesis. This is not the case - so I'd say a search for evidence of life on Mars (past or even present) is justified.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#25

Post by InclinedPlane »

ricardobeat wrote: post #14
mistercow wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems extremely unlikely. If a few dozen planes crashed on Earth (on land), how likely do you reckon you'd be to ever run across significant debris from any of them just by randomly driving around?

Here is a map of mars landings: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_landing#Image_map_of_Mars_... They are separated by hundreds/thousands of miles.

Devil's advocate: those are of the successful landings, it doesn't include the other Mars "landings" that were unsuccessful or unintentional. Such as Beagle 2, MPL, MCO, Deep Space 2, Mars 2, and Mars 6. Here's a full list: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_artificial_objects_on_M...

Most of the impact sites of those objects are known except for a few. MCO's impact point is unknown and whether or not Beagle 2 hit the surface is unknown (it may have skipped out of the atmosphere into a heliocentric orbit, or into an elliptical orbit and reentered elsewhere, or burned up entirely).

Even so, the chances are astronomically low that Curiosity has managed to stumble upon the wreck of another spacecraft.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#26

Post by stevewilhelm »

GuiA wrote: post #8
hdivider wrote: post #6

I'm certainly not an expert on this, but I'd say the most important number to think about when looking at rover images is the scale . "the little protuberance is probably about 0.5 cm tall, or even smaller." Five mm is obviously tiny. Keep this in mind before making up hypotheses as to what the thing is. =) We have to wait until better data is available. What's fascinating in itself though is that no person, however…

One of my dearest wishes is that humanity will find solid evidence for other lifeforms in the universe (whether it is through remains or actual contact). This moment, if/when it happens, will be so mindblowing on so many levels and affect us deeply as a society/species/etc. that I just WANT to see it.

I suspect finding evidence of other lifeforms in the universe, even highly intelligent lifeforms, would briefly be novel, but would have very little long-term effect on most people's daily lives.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#27

Post by mark_integerdsv »

GuiA wrote: post #8
hdivider wrote: post #6

I'm certainly not an expert on this, but I'd say the most important number to think about when looking at rover images is the scale . "the little protuberance is probably about 0.5 cm tall, or even smaller." Five mm is obviously tiny. Keep this in mind before making up hypotheses as to what the thing is. =) We have to wait until better data is available. What's fascinating in itself though is that no person, however…

One of my dearest wishes is that humanity will find solid evidence for other lifeforms in the universe (whether it is through remains or actual contact). This moment, if/when it happens, will be so mindblowing on so many levels and affect us deeply as a society/species/etc. that I just WANT to see it.

I share this with you... Kind of.

Personally, I'd not be that mind-blown, more like vindicated for years of conjecture and lively debate.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#28

Post by edwinkite »

The landing created an extensive debris field [1]. For example, the descent stage energetically disassembled on impact with 100+ kg of unused propellant still on board, as planned [2]. Bits of plastic and metal are strewn across a 30km-long strip. Curiosity has imaged several of these pieces already [3]. On the other hand, some 'bright material' that was thought to be spacecraft fragments turned out to be soil material. These fragments are important: they're a science hazard. A big goal for the mission is to find Martian organic matter, so the project is keen to avoid accidentally ingesting Earth plastic into the exquisitely precise onboard laboratory, SAM [4].

[1] http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/jpeg/PIA15696.jpg (debris from the last few minutes of flight),

http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2013/pdf/2800.pdf (debris from interplanetary cruise and atmospheric entry).

[2] http://www.spaceflight101.com/msl-descent-stage-impact-analy... (crash movie).

[3] http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/multimedia/pia16230.ht...

[4] http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs11214-012-9879-z (free full text)

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#29

Post by cgag »

mark_integerdsv wrote: post #23
Bjartr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, it's a more reasonable explanation than aliens at least.

I'm interested as to why you'd assert that so confidently. Is it perhaps the more comfortable of the two possibilities?

I can't imagine there's anyone on this forum who doesn't want it to be alien technology.

Re: Curiosity images strange metallic-looking object on Mars

#30

Post by anigbrowl »

vectorpush wrote: post #13

The human brain is a remarkable pattern recognition machine with a keen penchant for extracting meaning from noise. This, of course, will turn out to be nothing more than an unremarkable optical illusion; an urban legend is born.

That doesn't seem likely, since there's images from a second camera of a stereo pair. The suggestion that it's a fulgerite or offthrow of the landing seem the likliest explanations to me.
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