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Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

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Re: Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

#21

Post by krautsourced »

While it's all well and good that Linux is getting more press in regards to gaming these days, I'm still not seeing a massive push on the game developer side. Yes, there are the indie developers who will jump on it, especially those developing in Unity since it deploys to Linux and the others natively. But look how long it takes the major developers to even publish on OSX - and that has a much bigger (and much better known for customers willing to pay extra) market share.

Personally I'm working on all three platforms and I have reasons (and personal preferences) for each. I want my web servers to run Linux or BSD. I want my mobile computer to run OSX. And I want my work machine to run Windows. In each cases it's a mix of a need for certain applications and a preference for a certain workflow. Sometimes it's even something ridiculous like hating (HATING!) the way mouse acceleration works in OSX....

So, anyway, the way Gabe Newell tries to force an OS-war with his rhetoric is getting on my nerves. Steam is making him shitloads of money. And it'll continue to do so, regardless of Windows 8. And I love that he's opening up the market for Linux, but let's face it, Linux still isn't quite there as an end user desktop system. And unless it is, why should people switch and start purchasing their games on Linux, when they still do their everyday stuff in Win and OSX.

Re: Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

#22

Post by krautsourced »

FaddiCat wrote: post #11
charonn0 wrote: post #9

The explosion of Android as a platform has shown quite clearly both the power and flexibility of the Linux kernel, and the usefulness of hiding the complexity and providing a platform-neutral API. The VM-backed programming environment is what Valve perceive as the new gaming market here: they don't want just a console, they want their own iDevice or Kindle Fire. Mr. Newell mentioned that Valve's games were shifting t…

Would game developers really want to make games for a VM? Don't most big games usually try to squeeze as much out of the hardware as possible? (Genuinely curious... I know next to nothing about the gaming world.)

And what would the point be? Massive loss of performance by going through a VM - only to save 30 bucks on licence cost for e.g. Windows? Any game dev wants the most performance they can get their hands on.

Re: Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

#23

Post by [deleted] »

krautsourced wrote: post #21

While it's all well and good that Linux is getting more press in regards to gaming these days, I'm still not seeing a massive push on the game developer side. Yes, there are the indie developers who will jump on it, especially those developing in Unity since it deploys to Linux and the others natively. But look how long it takes the major developers to even publish on OSX - and that has a much bigger (and much better…

[deleted]

Re: Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

#24

Post by rmk2 »

krautsourced wrote: post #21

While it's all well and good that Linux is getting more press in regards to gaming these days, I'm still not seeing a massive push on the game developer side. Yes, there are the indie developers who will jump on it, especially those developing in Unity since it deploys to Linux and the others natively. But look how long it takes the major developers to even publish on OSX - and that has a much bigger (and much better…

This is a hen-and-egg-problem. No games for Linux are published, hence no market exists. And since no market exists, no games are published.

However, the Humble Bundles strongly suggest that there is in fact a market for Linux gaming, considering the Linux users consistently paid the most for the bundles[1], often significantly more than the Windows users and more than even OS X users usually perceived to readily pay a premium.

[1]: http://cheesetalks.twolofbees.com/humble/

Re: Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

#25

Post by Ygg2 »

FaddiCat wrote: post #11
charonn0 wrote: post #9

The explosion of Android as a platform has shown quite clearly both the power and flexibility of the Linux kernel, and the usefulness of hiding the complexity and providing a platform-neutral API. The VM-backed programming environment is what Valve perceive as the new gaming market here: they don't want just a console, they want their own iDevice or Kindle Fire. Mr. Newell mentioned that Valve's games were shifting t…

Would game developers really want to make games for a VM? Don't most big games usually try to squeeze as much out of the hardware as possible? (Genuinely curious... I know next to nothing about the gaming world.)

Game developers are fundamentally human. They care about people playing games, nothing more nothing less. You don't need to necessarily make your game have the latest and greatest graphical glitz. If they can make their game run smoothly on your hardware, they won't care if it's in a VM inside a Virtual Box on a cloud server, under the sea.

Minecraft is written in Java. There were games written in (at least partially) Haskell/Erlang/Ruby/Lisp. Unity3D is based on C#, etc. If tradeoffs are worth it, they'll do it.

Re: Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

#26

Post by scq »

FaddiCat wrote: post #11
charonn0 wrote: post #9

The explosion of Android as a platform has shown quite clearly both the power and flexibility of the Linux kernel, and the usefulness of hiding the complexity and providing a platform-neutral API. The VM-backed programming environment is what Valve perceive as the new gaming market here: they don't want just a console, they want their own iDevice or Kindle Fire. Mr. Newell mentioned that Valve's games were shifting t…

Would game developers really want to make games for a VM? Don't most big games usually try to squeeze as much out of the hardware as possible? (Genuinely curious... I know next to nothing about the gaming world.)

That usually only applies to performance-intensive code like rendering, physics, pathfinding, etc.

The actual gameplay is often implemented using scripting. For example, with Unity you write games in C# (with Mono) using their engine, and it's still fast enough to work on cellphones.

Re: Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

#27

Post by belorn »

lucian1900 wrote: post #20
belorn wrote: post #18

I suppose this is why the FSF has gone on and on about "free as in freedom", and not about the practical benefits for developers in releasing source code to the public. I understand that Gabe does not want to play by the app-store rule, be that Apple or Microsoft. They want to be free to develop their business, their business model, free from dictated rules of a third party. In a world where every user device is lock…

Minor nitpick: there are no anti-DRM clauses in the Apache license and the one in the GPLv3 only refers to DRM preventing replacing of the GPLv3 software.

Thanks. I included Apache license because FSF copied the text regarding patents from Apache and copy pasted it directly into GPLv3 (they later added a trailing sentence about patent agreements).

Re: Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

#28

Post by mtgx »

FaddiCat wrote: post #11
charonn0 wrote: post #9

The explosion of Android as a platform has shown quite clearly both the power and flexibility of the Linux kernel, and the usefulness of hiding the complexity and providing a platform-neutral API. The VM-backed programming environment is what Valve perceive as the new gaming market here: they don't want just a console, they want their own iDevice or Kindle Fire. Mr. Newell mentioned that Valve's games were shifting t…

Would game developers really want to make games for a VM? Don't most big games usually try to squeeze as much out of the hardware as possible? (Genuinely curious... I know next to nothing about the gaming world.)

There used to be a time when game developers didn't use "high-level" languages like C++ at all. But in the end they moved to them because of other benefits they got, and most of them slowly started to realize that with the hardware getting faster and faster, it's a good trade-off to make. They might think that again.

Re: Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

#29

Post by mtgx »

Expez wrote: post #10

For all my love for Steam, Valve, Linux and Newell himself, I cannot help but gag a little every time he opens his mouth as of late. Not a single fuck was given about Linux prior to the release of Win 8. Then, suddenly, once Valve's profit margins and business model is threatened the company shows some interest. This is all--of course--perfectly rational behavior, but there's no need to be all righteous about it and…

I don't care what his motivation is as long as he jumpstarts the movement of supporting AAA games on Linux, and getting GPU makers to make drivers for Linux, and game engine builders to support it as well.

Linux adoption is a chicken and egg problem right now. If Valve fixes the developer side of that, then the consumers will want it on their laptops, and manufacturers will start building such laptops, too. Well except Dell now, I guess.

Re: Gabe Newell: Linux is a “Get-out-of-jail free pass for our industry”

#30

Post by wreckimnaked »

rmk2 wrote: post #24
krautsourced wrote: post #21

While it's all well and good that Linux is getting more press in regards to gaming these days, I'm still not seeing a massive push on the game developer side. Yes, there are the indie developers who will jump on it, especially those developing in Unity since it deploys to Linux and the others natively. But look how long it takes the major developers to even publish on OSX - and that has a much bigger (and much better…

This is a hen-and-egg-problem. No games for Linux are published, hence no market exists. And since no market exists, no games are published. However, the Humble Bundles strongly suggest that there is in fact a market for Linux gaming, considering the Linux users consistently paid the most for the bundles[1], often significantly more than the Windows users and more than even OS X users usually perceived to readily pay…

And still the Linux ports on the Humble Bundle are buggy and painful to play (some examples here: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=154932)
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