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The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

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Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#21

Post by jpatokal »

jms wrote: post #7
djt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main problem is you need the accreditation if you want to apply to immigrate. As I understand it even if you are from overseas and study at a Australian university you would still need to get the accreditation to apply for a visa.

It seems to me this is one of the key functions of the organisation - to act as a pseudo governmental entity to asses qualification and experience claims relating to IT. I believe it also exists to provide a framework around CPD (continuing professional development), but I'm not sure how relevant this is to our industry.

Paying to vet the qualifications of people who have studied and worked overseas is not unreasonable -- but having to pay them $425 to certify that an accredited Australian university's CS diploma is, in fact, an accredited Australian university's CS diploma is ludicrous.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#22

Post by [deleted] »

djt wrote: post #4
_dark_matter_ wrote: post #3

All that about the pamphlet, not a big deal. But the payments at the end for accreditation? That seems to be a worse offense. Of course, if companies are only accepting applicants accredited by the ACS, they must be missing out on SOME people.

I think the main problem is you need the accreditation if you want to apply to immigrate. As I understand it even if you are from overseas and study at a Australian university you would still need to get the accreditation to apply for a visa.

[deleted]

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#23

Post by throwaway2048 »

tomcorrigan wrote: post #14
throwaway2048 wrote: post #6

Accreditation is common in many industries in Australia, it's basically a huge racket. To legally do any wiring work at all it must be done by an accredited electrician, not merely inspected by one as in most countries. in fact most home improvements of any kind must be performed by an accredited tradesman. add to this the laws that state any home improvement must bring the entire house up to current building codes,…

> laws that state any home improvement must bring the entire house up to current building codes This is patently false > this leads to urban decay and property abandonment on a massive scale Australia does not have property abandonment nor urban decay on a massive scale. Go to Detroit to witness such things.

the laws stating the building code requirement for upgrades are not implemented at a federal level, however many cities (such as brisbane) do have such requirements.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#25

Post by damian2000 »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #6

Accreditation is common in many industries in Australia, it's basically a huge racket. To legally do any wiring work at all it must be done by an accredited electrician, not merely inspected by one as in most countries. in fact most home improvements of any kind must be performed by an accredited tradesman. add to this the laws that state any home improvement must bring the entire house up to current building codes,…

You mean like this ... in Malaysia they've drafted a bill to require certification for anyone to be able to work in IT ...

http://uppercaise.wordpress.com/2011/12/09/new-law-puts-noos...

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#26

Post by femto »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #6

Accreditation is common in many industries in Australia, it's basically a huge racket. To legally do any wiring work at all it must be done by an accredited electrician, not merely inspected by one as in most countries. in fact most home improvements of any kind must be performed by an accredited tradesman. add to this the laws that state any home improvement must bring the entire house up to current building codes,…

> To legally do any wiring work at all it must be done by an accredited electrician, not merely inspected by one as in most countries.

That's what the various bodies would like you to think, as making things black and white makes their life easier, and keeps them friendly with the various trade organisations.

I gather it is now legal for a professional electrical engineer to do their own wiring in Queensland, just they can't do it for third parties. By my reading, it is also generally okay for anyone to work on an "extra low voltage circuit", meaning less than 50Vac or 120Vdc. At the same time, the various energy authorities will claim it is illegal to install your own solar panels, and their publicity material says you can't do any wiring. The actual law seems to say you can DIY, just that you would need an electrician to connect the 240Vac side of an inverter to the main.

Workcover applies an additional layer of regulation in industrial situations. There also seems to be a requirement for an electrician to do solar work to qualify for various green rebates, despite the electricity regulations saying its okay.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#27

Post by jacques_chester »

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #19
tomcorrigan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laws that state any home improvement must bring the entire house up to current building codes This is patently false > this leads to urban decay and property abandonment on a massive scale Australia does not have property abandonment nor urban decay on a massive scale. Go to Detroit to witness such things.

10.2% (2011 census data) of Australian properties are sitting there vacant. [ http://blog.id.com.au/2012/australian-census-2011/the-where-... ] And there is certainly urban decay all over the city I live in (Perth). Also, building codes are local government, aren't they? So it depends on what council you are in. And I've certainly heard some bad stories.

1. People stay with other people overnight.

2. New buildings are unoccupied, sometimes for months.

A more useful measure is rental vacancy rates. The Australian average is 2.3%, which is pretty close to "none" in practical terms.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#28

Post by onethree »

_dark_matter_ wrote: post #3

All that about the pamphlet, not a big deal. But the payments at the end for accreditation? That seems to be a worse offense. Of course, if companies are only accepting applicants accredited by the ACS, they must be missing out on SOME people.

i can't say i know of many companies that exclude people because theyre not members of the ACS. I work for an investment bank, and i have friends from uni who work everywhere from the IT department at one of our supermarket chains to the big 4 audit firms, and i don't know of any who actually have ACS accreditation

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#29

Post by mctx »

throwaway2048 wrote: post #6

Accreditation is common in many industries in Australia, it's basically a huge racket. To legally do any wiring work at all it must be done by an accredited electrician, not merely inspected by one as in most countries. in fact most home improvements of any kind must be performed by an accredited tradesman. add to this the laws that state any home improvement must bring the entire house up to current building codes,…

> To legally do any wiring work at all it must be done by an accredited electrician, not merely inspected by one as in most countries.

And contract electricians cost upwards of $80/hour, making replacing a light fitting prohibitively expensive.

Re: The Australian Computer Society should be disbanded

#30

Post by tomcorrigan »

retrogradeorbit wrote: post #19
tomcorrigan wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> laws that state any home improvement must bring the entire house up to current building codes This is patently false > this leads to urban decay and property abandonment on a massive scale Australia does not have property abandonment nor urban decay on a massive scale. Go to Detroit to witness such things.

10.2% (2011 census data) of Australian properties are sitting there vacant. [ http://blog.id.com.au/2012/australian-census-2011/the-where-... ] And there is certainly urban decay all over the city I live in (Perth). Also, building codes are local government, aren't they? So it depends on what council you are in. And I've certainly heard some bad stories.

From the linked article:

> While dwellings are vacant for a number of reasons they are primarily associated with holiday areas

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