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We are in the final years of our internet

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Re: We are in the final years of our internet

#22
I was looking through old computer magazines from the 1980s and thinking about my youth when there were numerous incompatible microcomputer platforms that had some popularity at some point such as

* TRS-80 Models I and III * VIC 20, C-64, C-128 * Apple II, II+, IIe, ... * CP/M systems based on the S-100 bus * IBM PC

and way too many others to mention. Eventually the PC and the Mac won out, except for a few Amiga fanatics and a specialized "workstation" marked served by vendors like Sun.

It seems the current state of things isn't nearly as fragmented as that!

Re: We are in the final years of our internet

#23
post #3

>Whatsapp has won messaging, text and instant. What will Twitter and Skype do? Seriously? Operating a centralized walled garden does not satisfy any definition of won messaging when you consider the architecture of the internet. Nobody has won instant messaging until they all interoperate on the same capacity that email is interoperable, defined by an RFC.

That line made me wonder if the whole article was a parody. I'm still not sure.

Re: We are in the final years of our internet

#24
Punditry at its worst. I would have called it clueless, but the truth is that nobody knows, and given evidence, this does not even seem like a plausible prediction.

Sure you can say "mobiles apps grew so and so". But then I can say that given the growth of a newborn child, 60 years old adult should be 50m tall.

Re: We are in the final years of our internet

#25
This was an interesting read that raises many questions, but much of the analysis is ultimately flawed because the author confuses many concepts.

Internet is not a human-computer interface. It is true that most native apps, non-browser apps on mobile and tablets use touch as the main point of interaction. And it is true that many people browse web via http or https using a keyboard and a mouse. But who knows how this will change in the future? People change. Web standards converges and diverges constantly. Technology evolves. Browsers today already do unthinkable things. There's no reason to completely assume that the primary HCI of web will remain as keyboard and mouse. Nor should we completely assume that the touch interface on tablets are the be it and end all method of interacting with native apps.

Re: We are in the final years of our internet

#26

There is quite a lot of black and white thinking here which is the primary problem. Look, consumer technology is always a mess - apps vs web vs native vs desktop vs mobile vs ... etc etc. The truth of it is that we have so many choices because technology is meant to solve individual problems as best as possible. There will never be one winner. I think the author assumes just because tablets and apps are growing (I as…

"There will never be one winner."

There will, however, be many losers, and PCs are going to be one of those losers. The form factor won't die, but the philosophy and freedom will die. It is inevitable, given the priorities people have and the money to be made.

If things continue going the way they are going, the only computers that will give users the freedom to do what we can do now will be locked away in research labs, available only to the lucky few who can land jobs in such places. These computers will be so expensive that only people who are doing funded research will be able to afford them. The next best thing will be computers targeted at developers (perhaps "debug" computers), which will be too expensive for most people to consider buying them but (hopefully) inexpensive enough for hackers to get their hands on them; these will still be loaded with restrictions, but at least the user will be able to write and run code and use a debugger. The only computers that will be anywhere near the price point that most people will consider paying will be those that are restricted to running software that was signed by some large corporation (i.e. only approved programs), with only the macro systems for a few "professional" programs (priced beyond what most people can afford) being available for user programming.

Why would software or hardware companies want it any other way? The next "big thing" will have to be filtered through the app store system, and the little startup that makes that software will be bought out before they can overtake the established players. The big media companies will form partnerships with the companies that control app stores (or just mergers, so that the whole stack is controlled by the same entity) that will be immensely profitable. ESPN will require all of Dell's customers to buy the ESPN app, without the option to get a refund or to remove it, and any company that does not take that deal will be barred from having the ESPN app on any of their products. Governments will love it -- no more uncontrolled cryptography, no more Wikileaks, CALEA-style laws for computers, and a chance to spot political movements before they take hold.

"Free flow of information and low friction information searching certainly is one use case where the web is so so much better than apps can ever be in their current form"

You can just pay $1/mo. for a search engine app, right? It will have an integrated web browser/hook into the installed browser. Not much different from having a Bloomberg terminal on your desk, except that it would be terrible for consumers (but profitable for businesses).

"Lastly "apps" have always existed. Nintendo games..."

Gary McGraw has pushed the idea that the security systems seen in video games ultimately become the security systems on all consumer computing devices. At one time, this app store model was something only video game consoles had; now we see it on tablets, and soon we will see it in other form factors. Video game consoles have highly expensive, hard-to-buy "debug" versions and developer systems; is there any reason to think that such a system could not come to exist for other consumer electronics?

Re: We are in the final years of our internet

#27
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peeling back the exterior and getting at the meat of the argument, I think the author is really arguing that the future "makers" of things are having their perception of the internet and computing shaped by their interactions with walled garden devices and controlled environments. Building off of this, they will proceed to continue perpetuating a world emphasized by unique apps and walled gardens instead of the creat…

A more concise argument is that your Android tablet that is Junior's first computing experience is significantly less hackable than your Commodore 64, which was more hackable than your DOS machine, which was more hackable than your Windows 95 machine, which was more hackable than your XP machine, et. cetera. Devices provide higher levels of abstraction from the tweak and tunables on the system, but only now are we se…

you could write your app with a web app ,get a quick preview , compile it and deliver it through a cloud service so you can test localy directly ( it already exists ) , applicationcraft .

Re: We are in the final years of our internet

#28

There is quite a lot of black and white thinking here which is the primary problem. Look, consumer technology is always a mess - apps vs web vs native vs desktop vs mobile vs ... etc etc. The truth of it is that we have so many choices because technology is meant to solve individual problems as best as possible. There will never be one winner. I think the author assumes just because tablets and apps are growing (I as…

"There will never be one winner." There will, however, be many losers, and PCs are going to be one of those losers. The form factor won't die, but the philosophy and freedom will die. It is inevitable, given the priorities people have and the money to be made. If things continue going the way they are going, the only computers that will give users the freedom to do what we can do now will be locked away in research l…

And all of that will persist for a short time until someone invents something new that disrupts it all, just like the Internet disrupted old media.

That is why I find the legal wrangling more worrying than anything else. Apple and Google can't stop me from inventing and popularizing a new technology, but the government can do a pretty good job of that, especially the second part.

Re: We are in the final years of our internet

#29

There is quite a lot of black and white thinking here which is the primary problem. Look, consumer technology is always a mess - apps vs web vs native vs desktop vs mobile vs ... etc etc. The truth of it is that we have so many choices because technology is meant to solve individual problems as best as possible. There will never be one winner. I think the author assumes just because tablets and apps are growing (I as…

"There will never be one winner." There will, however, be many losers, and PCs are going to be one of those losers. The form factor won't die, but the philosophy and freedom will die. It is inevitable, given the priorities people have and the money to be made. If things continue going the way they are going, the only computers that will give users the freedom to do what we can do now will be locked away in research l…

I actually don't think that computers capable of doing stuff other than media consumption will get more expensive. I actually think the opposite will happen and you can already see the start of this.

Look at things like Raspberry Pi , ODROID and arduino. Very hackable stuff at rock bottom prices. With faster internet connectivity comes access to remote virtual machines which can be rented by the hour and make stuff like huge scale data processing accessible to the teenage hacker in his bedroom.

Ultimately the future will require more people to understand not just how to use the tech on a basic level but people who can innovate with it.

If the US doesn't do this , another nation will and be all the richer for it.

Of course there will always be a market for passive consumption type devices as well as specialised ones. It's just that these used to be radios , TVs , CD players , calculators and nintendo consoles now they are iPads.

Re: We are in the final years of our internet

#30
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peeling back the exterior and getting at the meat of the argument, I think the author is really arguing that the future "makers" of things are having their perception of the internet and computing shaped by their interactions with walled garden devices and controlled environments. Building off of this, they will proceed to continue perpetuating a world emphasized by unique apps and walled gardens instead of the creat…

A more concise argument is that your Android tablet that is Junior's first computing experience is significantly less hackable than your Commodore 64, which was more hackable than your DOS machine, which was more hackable than your Windows 95 machine, which was more hackable than your XP machine, et. cetera. Devices provide higher levels of abstraction from the tweak and tunables on the system, but only now are we se…

Really good (long) summary, zanny. That was what I had garnered from the article's musings. It's something I've thought about a lot myself actually. How would I give a child the opportunity to learn to hack or program if they wanted to? For me it started with c-64 basic cause it wasn't compiled, then visual basic when I was like 13... I guess C# or Java could probably be taught very easily, but it feels like starting out learning martial arts by teaching them advanced maneuvers. It feels like the wax on, wax off approach really is the wise course but showing them QBasic or something hardly seems like a step forward.
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