Live data from Hacker News

What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

blog.simplyinsured.com

21–30 of 185 posts

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#21
post #9
post #2

Everything I read about healthcare recently just reinforces the notion that we need public health care. Let's just model our system after say, Canada's, and call it done.

You do realize that this is a recipe for inordinate amounts of public debt that you and I will never have to pay but our children and grandchildren will. Much like Social Security, Cananda's unfunded liabilities are long term too great: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/31/us-health-idUSTRE6...

Canada is indeed undergoing a debate on how to fund and deliver health care, but what is not under debate is whether it should it be kept public. It is also worth noting that the current government slashed taxes upon taking power and is now trying to cover the deficit by reducing social services. In this way it is a classic right-wing "starve the beast" tactic, wherein you take in less money and then say "Hey we can't afford these things anymore so we have to cut them" even though you could have paid for them without the tax cuts.

Most of the things the article talks about amount to adding efficiency to the public system, something that no one would protest. Nowhere in the article does it talk about the public system collapsing and serious discussion over switching to a private system. As far as public debt goes, Canada's debt is not great, but it is certainly nowhere near most other Western nations, so the whole "public health care is a recipe for inordinate amounts of public debt" doesn't seem to be true either.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#22

I've been hearing a lot of anecdotal evidence lately that the costs of private health insurance are stopping people, especially those with kids, from making the leap into their own start ups. Is anyone else getting that same impression? In my own experience on the topic I've become increasingly frustrated with the U.S. system of employer provided health care. Either give us a public option with universal coverage, or…

Another piece of anecdotal evidence, but my previous dentist was also married to a dentist and they worked at two different practices. Every time I went to him, he complained about how expensive medical insurance was for his family and their 2 kids. Eventually he quit practicing and joined an insurance company for the medical benefits.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#23

I've been hearing a lot of anecdotal evidence lately that the costs of private health insurance are stopping people, especially those with kids, from making the leap into their own start ups. Is anyone else getting that same impression? In my own experience on the topic I've become increasingly frustrated with the U.S. system of employer provided health care. Either give us a public option with universal coverage, or…

Start-up with kids and no spouse providing health insurance is basically a no go. My friend had a baby last year, and they had a few month health insurance gap between graduating school and their starting their jobs. In the meantime, the baby fell off the changing table, and they faced the choice of either hoping he was fine, or going to the emergency room and paying thousands of dollars just to check for a concussion.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#25
post #2

Everything I read about healthcare recently just reinforces the notion that we need public health care. Let's just model our system after say, Canada's, and call it done.

Issues I have with public health care: 1) The government hasn't been able to run anything efficiently as long as I've been alive. It's not like we can just go back if UHC doesn't work out. 2) The more the government runs our lives (especially something like health care), the more they will be able to dictate our choices (what we eat, risky behavior, etc). 3) I haven't seen one person that supports public health care…

Issues with private health care:

1) Private health insurers haven't been able to run anything efficiently as long as I've been alive. My premiums go up by double digit percentages every year because "costs" keep increasing, but at the same time, insurers' profits go up by double digit percentages every year. It seems like this is simply a money transfer to health care executives.

2) The more private companies run our lives (especially something like healthcare), the more they will be able to dictate our choices (what we eat, risky behavior etc). Oh wait... corporations already do dictate what we eat, what sort of medicine we use, where we work, how we communicate, how we move around, what we wear...The only difference between corporate control and government control is that we actually have some say in how the government controls us because at the end of the day we control the government.

3) I haven't seen on person that supports privated health care tell me the downside. I know they exist and we need to know the risks and talk about them openly before we stick with such a horrible system.

But anyways, the downsides to public health care: cafeteria health care (i.e., standardized treatments) which is good for most patients but not for the few who have nonstandard variations of ailments; higher taxes; less personalized care as a consequence of standardized treatments; potentially reduced choice of health care provider(s) (but if the entire system is UHC this may not be the case); potentially longer waits for medical treatment that cannot be handled in a day (i.e., anything that cannot be handled outpatient or by nurses or nurse practitioners).

And the downsides to private health care: all of the above, plus: risk of claim denial for valid claims (though admittedly less of a risk now as a consequence of numerous state and federal laws cracking down on claim denials); double-digit increases in premiums every year despite no corresponding increase in costs (this is actually happening, and has been happening, every year for the past decade); reduced choice of health care providers (which is actually the case now, i.e., in-network vs. out-of-network); ruinous medical bills; unnecessary tests and treatments; private health information being shared with "business partners"; inadequate medical facilities as a result of lack of capital investment due to premiums being redirected to marketing or executive retention.

It turns out the downsides of a private health care system outweigh the downsides of a public health care system, since you have all of the same downsides but the additional downsides that come with a profit-seeking business. And as history has amptly demonstrated, cost-cutting is not one of the benefits of a private health care system (costs are cut in a way that benefits the insurer's profits, but in ways which are detrimental to the insured).

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#26
post #2

Everything I read about healthcare recently just reinforces the notion that we need public health care. Let's just model our system after say, Canada's, and call it done.

I think bundling most healthcare under the idea of insurance is a big problem. Insurance works because there's profitability in calculated risk. Everyone doesn't get in a wreck every day, everyone's house doesn't burn down regularly. Dissimilarly, everyone gets old, everyone gets sick, everyone is going to need healthcare.

poppycock. Not everybody is going to need the same amount of healthcare. You can insure against the risk that something dire is going to strike you.

Your argument may work for old-age care, where the cost of care for most people soars off the charts for last-ditch, cutting-edge efforts to stay alive. But there is no reason the insurance model can't work for most of the population.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#27
I would recommend Kaiser coverage to anyone thinking about switching from one of those plans with big increases. Their doctors don't get extra money for performing extra procedures as is the case in a lot of plans, so there is more incentive to just do what's necessary.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#28
post #12
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize that this is a recipe for inordinate amounts of public debt that you and I will never have to pay but our children and grandchildren will. Much like Social Security, Cananda's unfunded liabilities are long term too great: http://www.reuters.com/article/2010/05/31/us-health-idUSTRE6...

Really, we have two separate problems that unfortunately get lumped together. First, is how to provide healthcare for the working age population and children. Nearly all the evidence points to public healthcare being better for this problem. Insurance discourages people from getting preventative care and ultimately costs more in the long run. Second, is how to provide healthcare for the boomer generation. I don't thi…

>Second, is how to provide healthcare for the boomer generation.

There absolutely has to be a dollar cap on how much the government will spend on health care on an individual. Then, we must absolutely stick to it. If the limit is reached, then no more money for that person.

I'd support such a limit on baby boomers only since those idiots are the ones who got us into this mess but I can't think of a way to implement that without a big discrimination lawsuit.

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#29
post #2

Everything I read about healthcare recently just reinforces the notion that we need public health care. Let's just model our system after say, Canada's, and call it done.

I far prefer the Singapore model to Canada's. Have you informed yourself of the variety of different public healthcare models out there? UK and Canada seem to have issues with very long wait times and bad options for private care for niche conditions (private care was illegal in Canada not too long ago)

Singapore has good health outcomes, low health expenditure, and a high quality of care. They use a forced-savings model with a public backstop, giving consumers market incentive to conserve healthcare and keep costs down (unlike the US all-you-can-eat model). It's very effective and not too far from our current system for political feasibility.

There are economists who have been studying the problems and benefits of various universal public healthcare for years. Are you aware of their arguments?

Re: What Startups Need To Know About Health Insurance in 2013

#30
post #2

Everything I read about healthcare recently just reinforces the notion that we need public health care. Let's just model our system after say, Canada's, and call it done.

Issues I have with public health care: 1) The government hasn't been able to run anything efficiently as long as I've been alive. It's not like we can just go back if UHC doesn't work out. 2) The more the government runs our lives (especially something like health care), the more they will be able to dictate our choices (what we eat, risky behavior, etc). 3) I haven't seen one person that supports public health care…

"The government hasn't been able to run anything efficiently as long as I've been alive."

I'm not so sure private insurance companies and hospitals are all that "efficient" either, but define "efficient" first. Private insurance companies are motivated by making a profit, and the easiest way to do that is to take in money, but pay out as little as possible.

There's very little competition in insurance, as 'the market' is primarily larger employers, so insurance companies by and large cater towards the needs of their biggest customers.

We need to get rid of employer-provided health care benefits, and focus on getting people to buy it directly themselves. This will bring more market forces to bear, getting more companies to compete for our business, not the employers', and perhaps we can then talk about 'efficiency' and having that be something positive for end recipients of health care.

Post reply on HN