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Ask HN: Do I need College?

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Re: Ask HN: Do I need College?

#21

Post by bobcattr »

College is not beneficial to all people but to many it is critical. At least in America the state of elementary, middle and high school is simple failure. Students are graduating with skills 8th graders had 30+ years ago. Students are graduating with only ever have taken watered down math and science courses.

I was one of those students who went to a public school which the standard of education was pretty darn low. When I got to college I was hit hard with just how behind I was. Many students were far above me all around.

When I graduated HS around 98% of students went off to colleges of some kind. Now when I look at facebook at least of the people I knew only a handful actually has a real job and of those people they are the ones who finished college. The rest don't have careers.

For me and the few others college fixed us. It forced us to do the work and work our way up to what most people are capable of.

So when you hear about the all star developer who never went to college and is doing great. Be sure of one thing, that person got a great education and good problem solving skills were learned. For the rest of us who never got this, you need to make up for it somehow. College is your shot.

Re: Ask HN: Do I need College?

#22

Post by oconnore »

choxi wrote: post #20
sopooneo wrote: post #12

I can't speak to the position of the OP, however, I have a general point I don't think I've seen mentioned. For some individuals, a college degree may not serve much value, either financially or for it's own sake. However I feel that collectively, all else being equal, a world where most poeple have been exposed to a broad range of views and have learned the liberal arts and sciences from passionate thinkers is bette…

you're assuming that you wouldn't experience a broad range of views unless you went to college. what about working at a couple companies, and using that money to travel twice a year?

I won't say that you can't approximate what you get from a liberal arts education without actually going, but it will be far more difficult than working at a few companies and traveling, it will require an incredible amount of determination, and you won't be able to do it alone.

For several years you spend the bulk of your time reading, writing, and perhaps most importantly: having very smart people critique your writing. All of this follows a program designed and honed over time to make you a capable and well balanced person. Where else are you going to find this?

Re: Ask HN: Do I need College?

#23

Post by mitchi »

College is a great place to make friends, bond with other intelligent people and learn of course. Even though when you reach some point, you have to do all the learning by yourself with books and articles anyway... If you were Canadian / French/ German / Finish, studies would be very affordable. Maybe you could go over there to study? My sister is in Finland right now and she tells me that school is free for everyone, even foreigners. Go burst that bubble !

The other option is to stay home, be discipled and learn everything from books and online courses. Then you impress the hell out of interviewers and you get the job anyway because some companies care more about skills than diplomas.

Re: Ask HN: Do I need College?

#24

Post by jseliger »

Probably.

Most people like college, and many people try to re-create aspects of the college experience at later points in their lives, usually without success. Even those who don't learn much seem to get a fair amount out of college. A lot of the learning takes place between the lines, and between classes.

I've seen college from the position of an undergrad, a law student (I quit) and now an ABD in a Phd program. I've written a lot about it here: http://jseliger.wordpress.com/?s=college . Take a look at those posts to get a better sense of the issues.

You can also look at a college degree as a kind of insurance: you may or may not need one, but if you do need it when you're 35, you REALLY need it.

Finally, look at the successful people you know or have read about. The vast majority went to college. Even the famous dropouts didn't, for the most part, dropout because they thought getting a degree was useless—they did so because they had a better opportunity to pursue. Unless you do, go.

Don't spent every hour programming. Go to parties, join a club, hit the gym. You'll still have lots of time with your hands on the keyboard. For many people, college is the easiest environment for sex they'll ever encounter. Take advantage of that.

Re: Ask HN: Do I need College?

#25

Post by lvturner »

One of the largest advantages in getting a degree is working abroad. A lot of countries wont give you work Visas unless you have some sort of degree.

While this advice isn't perhaps directly answering your question, the fact is simple, having a degree will open some extra doors for you.

Re: Ask HN: Do I need College?

#27

Post by gcv »

Since you're smart enough to ask the question, then the answer is yes, you do. At 19, if all you've ever done is "IT" — maintaining servers and databases — then you need to broaden your perception of the world. A good college will help make you a well-rounded, much smarter person with a way better awareness of the world. That's what it did for me.

Go to a good college. Don't cheap out. Don't play with computers too much. Study computer science if you want (it's good for your programming skills), but don't get hung up on it. Step out of your academic comfort zone and take classes in subjects way outside of your experience: philosophy, anthropology, women's studies, linguistics, comparative literature, art. College gives you a place where you can experiment with knowledge freely. Maybe you'll find something you'll like more than computers. If you're really lucky, you'll find something you can put together with your knowledge of CS and do something really important (or at least really profitable!). Don't worry about jobs afterwards, since you clearly have all the skills you need to earn a paycheck.

Re: Ask HN: Do I need College?

#28

Post by amorphid »

I don't think going to college is worth it if you're just going to get a degree. If the education will get you a foundation that will almost certainly benefit you, go for it. For example, if you want to be a doctor you have to finish college before you get go to medical school, but I'm not sure a C.S. degree makes you a better sys admin.

Let's pretend you start your own startup and you look for an entry level dev + ops kind of person. All other things being equal, would you rather hire a CS grad with no work experience or the person who didn't go to college with 1 year of startup experience working as a dev and being a sys admin? Either way, you should probably hire the person who demonstrates the best ability to do the job.

There is definitely some value in having a college degree. HR drones may opt to interview college grads first. You'll certainly learn things in college you may not learn other places. But college is pretty damn expensive these days, you've already got a career that pays you something, and it's hard for me to imagine you could learn something in college that you couldn't just teach yourself by building interesting things on your own.

Basically if you have to ask if college makes sense, spending a lot of money to go to college to find out if college makes sense may be doing things the hard way.

Here's a post from my old blog questioning whether or not it was a good investment to have gone to grad school -- http://captainrecruiter.blogspot.com/2011/05/value-propositi....

Re: Ask HN: Do I need College?

#29

Post by mminer »

Educational value aside, a degree makes it easier to work abroad. As a Canadian I may want to work in Silicon Valley and I might get hired based on experience alone, but the US government is less willing to issue visas to those without a degree. That itself may make it worthwhile to you. Additionally, there are some government grants for startups (in Canada, but presumably elsewhere) that require one of the founders to be a STEM grad. Prior to enrolling in university I was unaware of these hidden benefits, but they're numerous.

Re: Ask HN: Do I need College?

#30

Post by edw519 »

Go to college.

  Take science to discover something you're good at.
  Take humanities to discover something you may love.
  Take at least one art or music class.
  Take at least one advanced math class.
  Join a fraternity.
  Learn how to play bridge (and play all night sometime).
  Learn how to play foosball.
  Get drunk.
  Learn how to play foosball while drunk.
  Get laid.
  Play an intramural team sport.
  Get a part time job.
  Eat something you never tried before at least once/month.
  Get high.
  Do original research.
  Take a class you think you'll hate pass/fail.
  Do 5 minutes at a comedy club on open mike night.
  Hang out with a professor you like.
  Get laid.
  Do a web start-up on the side.
  Make a few friends for life.
  Go to at least one party each week.
  Pick a major you love whether it makes career sense or not.
  Get someone who has written one of your text books to sign it.
  Blog about your college experience.
  Get laid.
  Go to Europe with nothing but a backpack for a month or two.
  Enter a college talent show.
  Meet as many interesting (and boring) people as you can.
  Read good books.
  Go without shoes for a week just for the hell of it.
  Get laid.
  Graduate.
If you don't go to college, exactly when do you expect to do all of this?
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